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39 years of experience



Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,110
Surrey
Too much bluster over the England position. He did loads of things that seemed worthwhile. Brought Gary Neville in, made us more attacking because he knows we're not good enough defensively, moved Rooney out of his favoured position because he wasn't scoring enough (although that's backfired) and so on. I just wish he'd persuaded Pulis to join, as England defensive coach (although he's actually Welsh).

And [MENTION=13715]jimhigham[/MENTION], your argument is all over the place. Algeria? They played really well against South Korea but were no less naïve against Belgium than England were in our tough games. Australia? Played ok in the first two but against Chile were beaten inside 14 minutes. Against Spain they were totally outclassed. Mexico, an odd one, but they've had FOUR managers in the last 12 months and only qualified thanks to two USA goals in the last 4 mins against Panama - they shouldn't even be there.

And for every Colombia, Chile and Costa Rica, there's a Portugal, Spain and Italy. Oh and Russia - not only failing to qualify from a shìt group, but they looked AWFUL and were paying their manager £12m a year!!
 


jimhigham

Je Suis Rhino
Apr 25, 2009
7,699
Woking
Fair point well made. If England played all of the teams listed above how many do you reckon we would win? I just imagine that we would see a lot of draws.
 


Mowgli37

Enigmatic Asthmatic
Jan 13, 2013
6,371
Sheffield
I think many England fans need to lose the sense of entitlement. It is not our God-given right to do well in every tournament.
 


JBenno

New member
Jun 29, 2011
429
Upper Beeding
Roy Hodgson has been one of the luckiest England managers ever.
He took over just before the Euro's and was given a free pass, no pressure, no expectation. Lovely. In the following two years and building up to this tournament, the press and fans gave him another easy ride. Team in transition, youngsters being bloodied, lowering of expectation. Lovely. The man has had an armchair ride and that is part of the problem. Its all been a bit too nice, a bit too friendly, a bit too..." oh well, we had a go, did our best and what do you expect in a tough group etc "
The bite isn't there. The intensity isn't there. The demand isn't there and when the FA announced that he has another two years then you know that Roy's smooth and friendly show will roll on and won't cause any ripples.
To put it bluntly, these promising youngsters in the England squad need shaking up. They need to understand that at that level it is unacceptable to be miscontrolling and giving the ball away regularly. They need to become sharper and come out from under the apron strings of all their foreign colleagues in the PL, who can cover up for their mistakes.
In essence, if England are to succeed, they need one of the best coaches in the World. Hodgson is a solid journeyman and a safety first candidate but he won't carry England to any great heights. That little bit of class and magic is missing. That ability to inspire and lead younger players and ultimately earn their respect isn't there. He is more like a benevolent uncle to them, handing out sweets to them when they haven't really earned them. A soft touch.
I'm not convinced that this was the toughest of groups. Italy are already out and Uruguay are fairly ordinary. That powerhouse nation Costa Rica won the group comfortably and when they were coasting against us, we still couldn't beat them. To listen to Roy, extolling the virtues of a 0-0 draw, you would have thought that we had gone through. It was the soundbite of a limited man, clutching at straws.
I know we've got him for the next two years and to me, it feels like we are just treading water again. There will be a moderate performance at the Euro's and then we start all over again, looking for a new man, who then only has two years to put it right. If a team doesn't perform up to its potential, then the manager should go. IMHO England have underperformed at this World Cup.

Perfectly summed up that man. Whether it is right or wrong, it pretty much encapsulates my feelings.
 


pasty

A different kind of pasty
Jul 5, 2003
30,179
West, West, West Sussex
USA only got through because Portugal were pony
Chile only got through because Spain were pony
Costa Rica only got through because Uruguay were pony when they played them and we were out by the time they played us

We were extremely unlucky when the draw was made. I genuinely think we would have got out of any of the other groups, with the possible exception of Group A
 




JBenno

New member
Jun 29, 2011
429
Upper Beeding
USA only got through because Portugal were pony
Chile only got through because Spain were pony
Costa Rica only got through because Uruguay were pony when they played them and we were out by the time they played us

We were extremely unlucky when the draw was made. I genuinely think we would have got out of any of the other groups, with the possible exception of Group A

Good point - Also would have been better to play our fixtures in reverese order too. May have had a better chance of at least taking it to the last game.
 








Seagull over Canaryland

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2011
3,549
Norfolk
I'm not sure that England would have done any better if Roy had decided to park the bus, we just don't have the quality in defence or the ability to retain possession in order to stifle the opposition. At least Roy used the youngsters and had a go.

I know it seems obvious but our strategy seemed to be based on us attacking and scoring more goals than the opposition. Given the number of decent goal scoring chances we wasted and maybe with a tad more luck I suggest that we could even have topped the group. We had a tough group, lost narrowly to two teams higher ranked than us and drew with a side that embarrassed both those high ranked sides too. Yes we should have done better and are feeling disappointed - but we did not get battered either.

I'm consoling myself with the hope that the squad is in 'transition' ahead of the Euros. We also need young English players like Shaw, Flanagan, Stirling, Sturridge to get more pitch time in the Prem and gain experience in the Champs League. Barkley, Stones and Lallana also need to move onto the top 4 clubs. Plus keep Wilshere and Walcott fit.
 










Hamilton

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 7, 2003
12,390
Brighton
Hodgson earns £3million a year or something like that and in the absence of an obvious successor they will let him continue pro-tem.
I do wonder how motivated he will be after such humiliation and quite frankly,in an ideal situation,he should go now and count his compensation.
Reckon he and the England squad have got away very lightly in terms of flack from the press and public.
Hark;is that a quiet chuckle I can hear from a certain gentleman residing down in Sandbanks?
I wonder if we would have done any better under Harry;I would say,probably.

I think we could hire any coach on the planet for any amount of money and still get the same result.

The problem is far more deep rooted than just the coach. Our playing ability isn't up to it.
 






Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 6, 2003
19,322
Agree with this. Hodgson has had two years to develop a competitive England team with a strong and effective playing identity, well motivated and committed to the shirt. He has failed.
Or to put it another way: In two years he managed to turn us from a turgid team playing rigid, inflexible 4-4-2 into a more flexible unit that at least looks like a modern international football team. He has succeeded.
 


The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
Well to be honest, in football, the buck does stop with the manager, including at international level.

Does it? Says whom? The unchallenged wisdom we inherited from our forefathers?

It's an attitude that completely absolves the dreadful, avaricous, self-serving way in which English football is run, and yet onto which the vast majority of the blame must be heaped.

There is a greater problem that is unresolvable given the current, ever-repeated downward spiral in which English football operates; a problem lumbered onto a given individual who wishes to work for his country, but is severely hindered by a system that cannot and will not produce the depth of quality required to take the national side forward.

To say 'the buck stops with the manager', when he is part of the solution rather than the problem leaves those who are to blame laughing into their Pol Roger.
 


Seagull over Canaryland

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2011
3,549
Norfolk
Or to put it another way: In two years he managed to turn us from a turgid team playing rigid, inflexible 4-4-2 into a more flexible unit that at least looks like a modern international football team. He has succeeded.

Very much 'work in progress'. Roy has to change a stale squad and system, blood several young and inexperienced players, get them to play together and adapt to a more positive system. It won't happen overnight. Germany went back to basics and placed emphasis on youth about 10 years ago.

At least we have given some youngsters useful exposure to tournament football (several of them haven't played in the Champs League yet). If anything Roy has been more radical than I originally feared. Good on him for giving players like Barkley and Shaw a chance. Imagine the outcry if he had stuck with Ashley Cole, Carrick, Cleverley and Ashley Young..........

Having made some brave decisions I hope Roy will now tighten up the on the tendency to sit back, often a 6 man defence / midfield players sitting too deep and the front men then having insufficient support. When we did break forward as an attacking unit we created decent chances and really caused problems for the opposition. With a bit more killer instinct we should be in the last 16. Secondly Roy has to address the age old problem of England giving away possession too easily.

There will be the odd set back from time to time but as long as progress is evident then it will come. The Euros will be a more realistic indicator.
 


Lyndhurst 14

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2008
5,114
I think many England fans need to lose the sense of entitlement. It is not our God-given right to do well in every tournament.

Maybe those teams are simply better than the current England team. I don't get this sense of entitlement about England doing well at competitions.

Agreed. My boss was annoyed when over half the office predicted that England would be eliminated at the first hurdle in the office World Cup winner competition. He still harks back to when we won in 1966. Those days are long gone, we are a very average side at present. It really doesn’t matter how you spin it – we failed to get through to the final 16. We have gone backwards since 2010.

It’s a new reality – deal with it
 




pasty

A different kind of pasty
Jul 5, 2003
30,179
West, West, West Sussex
We have gone backwards since 2010.

Disagree with that completely. Yeah, okay so we got through to the last 16 in 2010 but....

England 1-1 USA
England 0-0 Algeria
England 1-0 Slovenia

We then got completely and utterly DESTROYED by Germany. The end results this year were not as good I grant you, but the standard of the opposition was far greater than it was in 2010.
 
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Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 6, 2003
19,322
One point and two goals is pretty pathetic, anyone who says otherwise is searching for excuses.
Not excuses, reasons. And that's certainly better than simply saying "England have done badly, therefore we should sack the manager and that'll make us better".

But, hey, I give up. Yes it was shocking, disgraceful, and a great nation like us with our rich footballing heritage and a history of winning tournaments every time we change the manager should have done MUCH better. So sack Hodgson, get in someone else, and then when we don't win the Euro's I (and a majority of England fans) will shake our heads sadly as some of you stare in disbelief and say "But we've got a new manager! Why didn't that make us any better?"
 



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