bWize
Well-known member
- Nov 6, 2007
- 1,685
Divide and rule in full effect! Same happening in America, France etc.
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Diane Abbott in fine form this morning...
- Thread starter Titanic
- Start date
Divide and rule in full effect! Same happening in America, France etc.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
I think that's already a given.
The strange thing about this election is that UKIP are an irrelevance and so there is no populist party, in England and Wales anyway, to vote for. The last 10 years has been marked by the rise of populist politics in the Western world which has given us Brexit, Le Pen, Trump, the rise of nationalism so the political climate is ripe. Britain is also in the doldrums politics-wise with the current government enjoying record polling despite even their own supporters saying that they are a bit rubbish. If UKIP had elected a half-sensible leader instead of imploding, they'd be looking at winning dozens of seats right now.
I'm not endorsing UKIP (can't stand them), I'm just stating what I think could have happened given all this disillusionment.
Hampster Gull
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,462
Machiavelli
Well-known member
Corbynism is an example of populism (a populist movement), whereas Corbyn quite categorically is the antithesis of a populist leader.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from there but can a movement be truly described as populist when it has a quite specific/limited appeal?
Calling [MENTION=34942]Dr. No[/MENTION]
Dr. No
Well-known member
- Nov 28, 2016
- 562
pastafarian
Well-known member
Holy Virtue Signal Batman.
So frigging what.....its irrelevant to everything? Judge Diane Abbot MP on Diane Abbot MP being Diane Abbot MP....dont play some pathetic immigrant NHS card.
You are approaching angles from all the wrong perspectives.
Are you Tory Lite Lib Dem?
Britain does NOT need saving.
We are already a Great Country.(.it says it on the tin) which now has the option of Liberty to be free and independent of The EU.
We are entering a fragile window in the history of our Nation where we are leaving The EU. Most voters accept the reality that we voted to leave and that we are leaving. Only fools dispute this outcome
We need during this period strong and stable leadership, there are 3 options provided to see us through this transition. Tories, Labour and the farron mob.
Hardly anyone trusts weasel farron, and honestly if you think the Corbyn gang are the right people to see this through with sensible international politics….. you need a head reading.
We need leaders right now, not daft old Labour activists who never grew up and who never managed to remove the chips from their shoulders.
Lower West Stander
Well-known member
It seems to me from reading through this thread that Labour supporters are fairly united in their criticism of the Tories for a variety of reasons - many of which are valid.
But I am yet to see anyone say Corbyn is a viable alternative. The country needs a strong two party system and at the moment hasn't got it.
Would it not be better to not vote Labour, allow them to get absolutely pasted as the only way of getting rid of him and his cronies?
Genuine question to Labour voters.......
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But I am yet to see anyone say Corbyn is a viable alternative. The country needs a strong two party system and at the moment hasn't got it.
Would it not be better to not vote Labour, allow them to get absolutely pasted as the only way of getting rid of him and his cronies?
Genuine question to Labour voters.......
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darkwolf666
Well-known member
I understand your sentiment - but another 5 years of Tory spite seems hard to palate.
Yer, but then I would argue that society hasn't made me wealthy. ****ing hard work has, and as it stands my net worth is well over a million, so why should that be spread out. I like many others made it from nothing, so why should it be shared out to anyone other than who I choose.
You are just a left wing looney, making noises that effect millions, but probably not yourself.
You wish you had built enough of a fortune to be in the inheritance bracket. But as you've not been lucky enough/worked hard enough, or been bothered, you want to take take take off everyone who has.
Or is it just a select few at the top of the tree you want to taxIN which case what happens when they **** off abroad with their billions?
I have paid stupid amounts of tax over the years. Why I should pay it again to pass it on to my children is beyond me, especially when there is so much waste with taxes in this country.
But again, that's the left wings answer. Throw money at it and let the Tories sort it out when we **** the country and leave it stink.
Well, hopefully now the left is history, and after the Tories walk this election, an alternative opposition presents itself, because if Abbott is big hitter in the Labour party, and the Labour party is the main opposition, you are going to have to put up with a powerful Tory government for many decades to come.
The left is finished.
We are exiting Europe.
Grow a pair of bollocks and except it.
We are coming out of Europe.
Here lies the problem with some elements of society.
If you have anyone who works for you then you have benefited from the school system, health system etc that has provided you with workers.
If you transport any goods then you benefit from the infrastructure of the country.
You say you have kids - if born in a hospital then that is not cheap etc etc
No one can get rich all on their own through hard work (unless you dig a hole in your garden and find gold) - you need a society to benefit from.
I am not a lefty, I just understand that it takes all sorts to keep the economy going - teachers earn little, nurses, council staff on the roads, bin men etc etc. Some people like teachers are unable to afford their own homes because of property investors pushing up prices. Should they work harder?
Your argument is so simplistic it is painful.
Would he go if they got hammered though? I am not sure. If others left the party to form a new one then they would not have all of the party infrastructure e.g. Labour clubs etc.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
That's a good question. All populist phenomena have to start from somewhere, so in most cases (although less so when there is a tradition of populism -- i.e. north and south Americas), they will start off from a smaller base.
The strategy of populism is to take a section of the population and present it as the entire people -- populism, in short, is constructing the people -- and there's always a tension between these two.
The problem for Corbynism (the movement) is that despite making great initial strides, they haven't managed to sustain that 'momentum', and that is in part because of Corbyn himself, but also the PLP, which points to issues between the three core elements of populism: the leader, the party, and the movement.
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
I don't see strong and stable leadership and good governance anywhere I'm afraid. You talk about sensible international politics when we've Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary and a PM who reaches out to impress people by saying she'll be 'bloody difficult.' All I hear are soundbites from the Tories that people buy into because it sounds good. I don't see any substance anywhere.
In terms of Diane Abbot as an MP and working as Home Secretary - The Home Office is a complete shambles, so she'd fit right in. Unlike the incumbent Home Secretary she's not currently being investigated by The CPS either. As I've said, Amber Rudd should be grilled on numbers/figures/monetary amounts - preferably under caution though.
biddles911
New member
- May 12, 2014
- 348
Pedant alert!
A populist movement is one that claims to represent the interests of the ordinary people (however you define ordinary?).
By that definition I guess all parties could probably claim to be populist except perhaps, paradoxically, UKIP which is/was a single issue movement.
Suggests to me that the definition is pretty meaningless really. Of more practical use is whether the party is popular enough to put their policies into practice?
By that test, Labour won't be despite their policies which, in practice, are quite popular (however impractical) because they have a leader who has demonstrated in all possible arenas that he is not competent to lead his party let alone the country.
Sad but true. I'm hoping Labour get trounced if only to get rid of Corbyn and his incompetent band (see Abbott for proof of this).......
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- Apr 13, 2015
- 3,493
Populism is a movement, of people and ideas that is hoped will lead to a moment, an event, in this case we had the Brexit vote.... result = Leave.
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mikeyjh
Well-known member
I think Corbyn is a principled man, certainly different from the norm with a long long list of left of centre policies that I wholeheartedly agree with him. Indeed he has a lot of policies that a lot of people agree with. He seems to be more than capable of taking on May each week so I so no reason why he could represent the country on the international scene.
That to one side, what is that makes Corbyn non viable? Outside of the shameful media representation of Corbyn as a loon an 'unelectable', what is that people have figured out for themselves?
For what it's worth, it's like a self fulfilling prophecy, the media's damning of Corbyn as 'unelectable' will probably result in him being so.
Lower West Stander
Well-known member
Its just too easy to blame the media in my opinion.
You only have to look at the original basis of this thread. All NIck Ferrari did was ask basic questions......