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The DUP...



D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
daveinprague said:
After all the bs about Corbyn on here for weeks, good to see the perpetrators sucking up to a party with strong links to paramilitary terrorists, and calling everybody else hypocrits. Pretty funny. Theres a difference between having sympathies with, and forming a government with.
Click to expand...

What happened to Corbyn also happened to Farage, the difference is Farage got it from all angles. I remember people couldn't wait to post rubbish about Farage on NSC, and now it's happened to Corbyn people complain he has been treated unfairly. I honestly couldn't be bothered to read all the crap being printed about Corbyn, because I have seen it all before. Can we not agree it hasn't been good whether you are on the left or on the right.
 




Bob'n'weave

Bob'n'weave

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2016
1,970
Nr Lewes
Sooooooooooo, basically we are saying that whatever happens we will be governed by terrorists. Fine, so long as I know.
 


LlcoolJ

LlcoolJ

Mama said knock you out.
Oct 14, 2009
12,982
Sheffield
Bob'n'weave said:
Sooooooooooo, basically we are saying that whatever happens we will be governed by terrorists. Fine, so long as I know.
Click to expand...
Er, no. Because whether you consider Sinn Fein terrorists or not, they're never going to be part of the UK government. Unlike the people Theresa has just jumped into bed with. Just so you know.
 


K

knocky1

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2010
12,964
pastafarian said:
Im struggling to understand this sudden upsurge in mock outrage directed towards The DUP in the past few hours.
I cant really remember anyone giving a toss about them previously yet suddenly and if by magic the left wing of politics suddenly and incredibly has a moral high position to uphold on the DUP.
This whole nouveau ridiculous stand point was highlighted last night by the usual cretins chanting outside parliament “ DUP off our streets”…..Umm Northern Ireland is part of the UK “streets” you planks, they have been democratically elected “onto our streets” for a number of years……why are you now having a hissy fit…..i must have missed all your other demos against them when you didnt give a toss..
Click to expand...

I'm not sure Ian Paisley had many supporters outside the Loyalist areas especially by lefties. Get over it. Times they are a changing.
 


J

Jolly Red Giant

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2015
2,615
Elections in Northern Ireland are a sectarian headcount - SF ramping up Irish nationalism to corner the Catholic vote and the DUP ramp up British unionism to corner the Protestant vote. Since the Good Friday Agreement 20 years ago sectarianism and division have become more deeply embedded than ever before. To demonstrate - 90% of Catholics live in Catholic only areas - the same with Protestants. 75% of Catholic teenagers have never spoken to a Protestant and a similar number of Protestant teenagers have never spoken to a Catholic.

A few years ago a friend of mine from the South of Ireland went to live in Belfast - renting an apartment in South Belfast in a new apartment block. About a month after he moved in a Sinn Fein leaflet was dropped in the apartments saying that Sinn Fein were looking forward to representing the tenants in the apartments - within a week all the Protestants had moved out. There are thousands of examples of the sectarians on both sides marking territory like this - kerbstones are painted red, white and blue or green, white and orange depending on who lives in the estate. With a growing Catholic population and a declning Protestant population there is growing tensions about Catholics 'encroaching' into Protestant areas - particularly in North Belfast. There are now entire Catholic or Protestsnt villages completely surrounded by a hinterland dominated by the other religion as Catholics and Protestants gather together in 'their own community'.

Despite the end of the paramilitary campaigns by republcian and loyalist paramilitaries there are ongoing low-level sectarian attacks and sectarian rioting at the 'interfaces' between Catholic and Protestant areas (an example of this is the sectarian tensions between the Catholic enclave of the Short Strand in East Belfast and the Protestant Newtownards Road interface where sectarian rioting is a regular occurrence). On top of that there has been the emergence of Republcian and loyalist 'dissidents' opposed to the GFA who are tapping into the desperation in the most deprived Catholic and Protestant areas as a result of Sinn Fein and the DUP jointly imposing vicious austerity at the behest of the Tories and before them the Blairites.

As for the DUP - they are a reactionary bunch of sectarian bigots - a gang of homophobic, xenophobic, anti-women, racist, creationist, religious fundementalist nut jobs who were supported in the recent election by the loyalist paramilitaries of the Ulster Defence Association and the Ulster Volunteer Force.
 




J

Jolly Red Giant

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2015
2,615
And by the way - any 'deal' between the Tories and the DUP will be short lived - the crisis within the Tories after the election will inevitable spill into the open over Brexit - they have been tearing lumps out of one another since the Brexit referendum and they will not be able to keep the lid on it anymore.
 












highflyer

highflyer

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2016
2,434
spence said:
People voted Corbyn who is an IRA sympathizer, he blamed our foreign policies for recent terror attacks here and calls Hamas and Hezbollah his friends. Why are people whinging about DUP and yet back Corbyn ?
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I am relaxed about the DUP's past on the basis they have renounced violence. As I was relaxed about Corbyn's alleged 'links' with the IRA.
But that won't stop me pointing and laughing at all those that have previously expressed outrage about Corbyn now tieing themselves in knots trying to justify the Tories cuddling up with the DUP.

I find the DUP's social agenda disgusting. But I actually do believe the Tories have moved on in that regard and we will not see any watering down on gay marriage etc. The DUP are probably aware enough not to push that.

What I DO find worrying is how this deal may threaten the (currently very fragile) NI process. There has been a worrying move back to the extremes in NI and Westminster must be able to act as honest broker. This deal seriously undermines their credibility in that regard.

The Tories are caught between a rock and a hard place. They can do a deal with DUP, keep May in place and stagger on for as long as possible, hoping that things improve, but more likely losing ever more support as they go. As long as May is in place the right wing press will probably not get behind them. And without the support of the right wing press they are going to really struggle.

Or they can take action and try and 're-set' themselves with a new leader. But any leadership change, or the collapse of the agreement with DUP, almost certainly means a general election. And they would probably lose that properly now.

Corbyn is in a position of strength. He will put forward a major amendment to the house on the Queens Speech, which I am sure will receive a lot of support, even if not enough to carry it. He is in a postion to re-unify large parts (not all) of the Labour party, while also building strong alliances with other parties. Whether he can do it or not remains to be seen, but those that continue to underestimate him do so at their peril.

Anyone that takes the 'Labour lost so I don't understand why they are so happy' line is a bit desperate and/or seriously hasn't been paying attention.

Labour didn't win (yet). But May and her party lost. Badly.
 




Titanic

Titanic

Super Moderator
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,069
West Sussex
LABOUR REPEATEDLY TRIED TO DO DEALS WITH THE DUP

https://order-order.com/2017/06/11/labour-repeatedly-tried-to-do-deals-with-the-dup/

Labour have boarded the outrage bus over the Tories doing a deal with the “bigots and terrorist-sympathisers” in the DUP. They have some nerve…

In 2010 Labour tried to do a deal with the DUP. Gordon Brown wrote a letter to the DUP leader trying to buy his support. The then Northern Ireland Secretary Shawn Woodward worked on an “economic package” to secure DUP support. This morning Alastair Campbell said a deal with the DUP could undermine the peace process. On May 7, 2010, Campbell sat in a meeting where a Labour-DUP deal was proposed. Glorious hypocrisy from Bad Al…

Ed Miliband last night blasted the Tory-DUP deal as a “coalition of chaos”. Yvette Cooper this morning says it is “troubling“. Owen Jones says: “If Labour had ever done a deal with the DUP I would have been out there protesting it”. According to the DUP’s Ian Paisley Jr, Miliband’s Labour also tried to do a deal with the DUP in 2015:

Don’t buy the rank hypocrisy of Labour’s faux outrage this morning…
 
Last edited:


aolstudios

aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
4,452
brighton
highflyer said:
I am relaxed about the DUP's past on the basis they have renounced violence. As I was relaxed about Corbyn's alleged 'links' with the IRA.
But that won't stop me pointing and laughing at all those that have previously expressed outrage about Corbyn now tieing themselves in knots trying to justify the Tories cuddling up with the DUP.

I find the DUP's social agenda disgusting. But I actually do believe the Tories have moved on in that regard and we will not see any watering down on gay marriage etc. The DUP are probably aware enough not to push that.

What I DO find worrying is how this deal may threaten the (currently very fragile) NI process. There has been a worrying move back to the extremes in NI and Westminster must be able to act as honest broker. This deal seriously undermines their credibility in that regard.

The Tories are caught between a rock and a hard place. They can do a deal with DUP, keep May in place and stagger on for as long as possible, hoping that things improve, but more likely losing ever more support as they go. As long as May is in place the right wing press will probably not get behind them. And without the support of the right wing press they are going to really struggle.

Or they can take action and try and 're-set' themselves with a new leader. But any leadership change, or the collapse of the agreement with DUP, almost certainly means a general election. And they would probably lose that properly now.

Corbyn is in a position of strength. He will put forward a major amendment to the house on the Queens Speech, which I am sure will receive a lot of support, even if not enough to carry it. He is in a postion to re-unify large parts (not all) of the Labour party, while also building strong alliances with other parties. Whether he can do it or not remains to be seen, but those that continue to underestimate him do so at their peril.

Anyone that takes the 'Labour lost so I don't understand why they are so happy' line is a bit desperate and/or seriously hasn't been paying attention.

Labour didn't win (yet). But May and her party lost. Badly.
Click to expand...

This. All of it.
Good post
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,511
The Fatherland
highflyer said:
I am relaxed about the DUP's past on the basis they have renounced violence. As I was relaxed about Corbyn's alleged 'links' with the IRA.
But that won't stop me pointing and laughing at all those that have previously expressed outrage about Corbyn now tieing themselves in knots trying to justify the Tories cuddling up with the DUP.

I find the DUP's social agenda disgusting. But I actually do believe the Tories have moved on in that regard and we will not see any watering down on gay marriage etc. The DUP are probably aware enough not to push that.

What I DO find worrying is how this deal may threaten the (currently very fragile) NI process. There has been a worrying move back to the extremes in NI and Westminster must be able to act as honest broker. This deal seriously undermines their credibility in that regard.

The Tories are caught between a rock and a hard place. They can do a deal with DUP, keep May in place and stagger on for as long as possible, hoping that things improve, but more likely losing ever more support as they go. As long as May is in place the right wing press will probably not get behind them. And without the support of the right wing press they are going to really struggle.

Or they can take action and try and 're-set' themselves with a new leader. But any leadership change, or the collapse of the agreement with DUP, almost certainly means a general election. And they would probably lose that properly now.

Corbyn is in a position of strength. He will put forward a major amendment to the house on the Queens Speech, which I am sure will receive a lot of support, even if not enough to carry it. He is in a postion to re-unify large parts (not all) of the Labour party, while also building strong alliances with other parties. Whether he can do it or not remains to be seen, but those that continue to underestimate him do so at their peril.

Anyone that takes the 'Labour lost so I don't understand why they are so happy' line is a bit desperate and/or seriously hasn't been paying attention.

Labour didn't win (yet). But May and her party lost. Badly.
Click to expand...

Bang on the money.
 




W

warmleyseagull

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2011
4,219
Beaminster, Dorset
highflyer said:
I am relaxed about the DUP's past on the basis they have renounced violence. As I was relaxed about Corbyn's alleged 'links' with the IRA.
But that won't stop me pointing and laughing at all those that have previously expressed outrage about Corbyn now tieing themselves in knots trying to justify the Tories cuddling up with the DUP.

I find the DUP's social agenda disgusting. But I actually do believe the Tories have moved on in that regard and we will not see any watering down on gay marriage etc. The DUP are probably aware enough not to push that.

What I DO find worrying is how this deal may threaten the (currently very fragile) NI process. There has been a worrying move back to the extremes in NI and Westminster must be able to act as honest broker. This deal seriously undermines their credibility in that regard.

The Tories are caught between a rock and a hard place. They can do a deal with DUP, keep May in place and stagger on for as long as possible, hoping that things improve, but more likely losing ever more support as they go. As long as May is in place the right wing press will probably not get behind them. And without the support of the right wing press they are going to really struggle.

Or they can take action and try and 're-set' themselves with a new leader. But any leadership change, or the collapse of the agreement with DUP, almost certainly means a general election. And they would probably lose that properly now.

Corbyn is in a position of strength. He will put forward a major amendment to the house on the Queens Speech, which I am sure will receive a lot of support, even if not enough to carry it. He is in a postion to re-unify large parts (not all) of the Labour party, while also building strong alliances with other parties. Whether he can do it or not remains to be seen, but those that continue to underestimate him do so at their peril.

Anyone that takes the 'Labour lost so I don't understand why they are so happy' line is a bit desperate and/or seriously hasn't been paying attention.

Labour didn't win (yet). But May and her party lost. Badly.
Click to expand...

Agree that good post until last sentence. Bit like saying 'you lost even though you won 1-0 against third rate opposition that you should have thrashed by 5 or 6.' Fair point, but you still won.
 


Bob'n'weave

Bob'n'weave

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2016
1,970
Nr Lewes
Can't help feeling that May has 'done a Ratner' on the Tory party. God help her if there is another election this year.
 




highflyer

highflyer

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2016
2,434
ManOfSussex said:
The DUP could insist on Nigel Farage having a role in Brexit negotiations

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/11/the-d...having-a-role-in-brexit-negotiations-6701540/
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I'd suspect this (if there is anything in it at all) is a bit of trolling from the DUP. I am not sure how far the Farage agenda would even fit DUP's given their stated commitment to a frictionless border in Ireland. But does open some interesting links to the stories out there about the DUP 'dark money': https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...k-money-and-a-saudi-prince-1.3083586?mode=amp
 




highflyer

highflyer

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2016
2,434
Titanic said:
LABOUR REPEATEDLY TRIED TO DO DEALS WITH THE DUP

https://order-order.com/2017/06/11/labour-repeatedly-tried-to-do-deals-with-the-dup/

Labour have boarded the outrage bus over the Tories doing a deal with the “bigots and terrorist-sympathisers” in the DUP. They have some nerve…

In 2010 Labour tried to do a deal with the DUP. Gordon Brown wrote a letter to the DUP leader trying to buy his support. The then Northern Ireland Secretary Shawn Woodward worked on an “economic package” to secure DUP support. This morning Alastair Campbell said a deal with the DUP could undermine the peace process. On May 7, 2010, Campbell sat in a meeting where a Labour-DUP deal was proposed. Glorious hypocrisy from Bad Al…

Ed Miliband last night blasted the Tory-DUP deal as a “coalition of chaos”. Yvette Cooper this morning says it is “troubling“. Owen Jones says: “If Labour had ever done a deal with the DUP I would have been out there protesting it”. According to the DUP’s Ian Paisley Jr, Miliband’s Labour also tried to do a deal with the DUP in 2015:

Don’t buy the rank hypocrisy of Labour’s faux outrage this morning…
Click to expand...

I'll be interested to see if this comes out in the real media - as it surely must if there is anything to it. It may be true, I wouldn't put it past the likes of Campbell to go down such a road if backed into a corner (which is what has happened with May - she really has no choice) But I'll keep an open mind for now if that's OK, given the 'source'. And also note that I would never dream of just copying and pasting an article from 'The Canary' and expect anyone to take it seriously. Though I acknowledge others might!
 


Ernest

Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,739
LOONEY BIN
Titanic said:
LABOUR REPEATEDLY TRIED TO DO DEALS WITH THE DUP

https://order-order.com/2017/06/11/labour-repeatedly-tried-to-do-deals-with-the-dup/

Labour have boarded the outrage bus over the Tories doing a deal with the “bigots and terrorist-sympathisers” in the DUP. They have some nerve…

In 2010 Labour tried to do a deal with the DUP. Gordon Brown wrote a letter to the DUP leader trying to buy his support. The then Northern Ireland Secretary Shawn Woodward worked on an “economic package” to secure DUP support. This morning Alastair Campbell said a deal with the DUP could undermine the peace process. On May 7, 2010, Campbell sat in a meeting where a Labour-DUP deal was proposed. Glorious hypocrisy from Bad Al…

Ed Miliband last night blasted the Tory-DUP deal as a “coalition of chaos”. Yvette Cooper this morning says it is “troubling“. Owen Jones says: “If Labour had ever done a deal with the DUP I would have been out there protesting it”. According to the DUP’s Ian Paisley Jr, Miliband’s Labour also tried to do a deal with the DUP in 2015:

Don’t buy the rank hypocrisy of Labour’s faux outrage this morning…
Click to expand...

Fake news, Guido is just a Tory smear artist
 


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