Martin McGuinness Dead

Buzzer · Mar 21, 2017

ROSM said:
Okay, let's be controversial here.

Was he a terrorist? YES
Was he a murderer? MOST LIKELY
Did he cause pain and suffering to many many families? UNDOUBTEDLY
Did he play a significant part on the peace process? YES
Did his actions in later life improve the prospects for peace in northern Ireland? YES
Did his work with Ian Paisley give hope to many families on both sides? HIGHLY LIKELY

So on balance he seems to have been a sinner who repented. In which case I'm sure the Christians on both sides of this debate will do the Christian thing

It's probably easier to look at what Colin Parry says today which is that you can't forgive what he did but you have to respect the man he became in later life

Or you could listen to the family of mother, Joanne Mathers whose murderer McGuiness never named despite strong evidence that he ordered the killings. There was no repent there, the man only gave up guns for immunity from prosecution. Respect him? Nah.

Timbo · Mar 21, 2017

ROSM said:
Okay, let's be controversial here.

Was he a terrorist? YES
Was he a murderer? MOST LIKELY
Did he cause pain and suffering to many many families? UNDOUBTEDLY
Did he play a significant part on the peace process? YES
Did his actions in later life improve the prospects for peace in northern Ireland? YES
Did his work with Ian Paisley give hope to many families on both sides? HIGHLY LIKELY

So on balance he seems to have been a sinner who repented. In which case I'm sure the Christians on both sides of this debate will do the Christian thing

It's probably easier to look at what Colin Parry says today which is that you can't forgive what he did but you have to respect the man he became in later life

I'm afraid anyone even remotely connected the murder of children can never be anything other than festering scum who's better off dead, no matter how nice a guy you may think he is nowadays.

El Presidente · Mar 21, 2017

Timbo said:
I'm afraid anyone even remotely connected the murder of children can never be anything other than festering scum who's better off dead, no matter how nice a guy you may think he is nowadays.

That rules out most politicians then.

Foul Play Rocks · Mar 21, 2017

Bet he gets a full state funeral.

cjd · Mar 21, 2017

ROSM said:
Okay, let's be controversial here.

Was he a terrorist? YES
Was he a murderer? MOST LIKELY
Did he cause pain and suffering to many many families? UNDOUBTEDLY
Did he play a significant part on the peace process? YES
Did his actions in later life improve the prospects for peace in northern Ireland? YES
Did his work with Ian Paisley give hope to many families on both sides? HIGHLY LIKELY

So on balance he seems to have been a sinner who repented. In which case I'm sure the Christians on both sides of this debate will do the Christian thing

It's probably easier to look at what Colin Parry says today which is that you can't forgive what he did but you have to respect the man he became in later life

Please don't ever tell us..."you HAVE to respect the man he became".

He was utter scum and if there is a hell, may he burn long and painfully in it.

Hillian1 · Mar 21, 2017

ROSM said:
Okay, let's be controversial here.

Was he a terrorist? YES
Was he a murderer? MOST LIKELY
Did he cause pain and suffering to many many families? UNDOUBTEDLY
Did he play a significant part on the peace process? YES
Did his actions in later life improve the prospects for peace in northern Ireland? YES
Did his work with Ian Paisley give hope to many families on both sides? HIGHLY LIKELY

So on balance he seems to have been a sinner who repented. In which case I'm sure the Christians on both sides of this debate will do the Christian thing

It's probably easier to look at what Colin Parry says today which is that you can't forgive what he did but you have to respect the man he became in later life

The PIRA was so badly infiltrated by British security agents that McGuiness couldn't take a shit without us knowing.

He had no choice but to move into Politics.

Hillian1 · Mar 21, 2017

Foul Play Rocks said:
Bet he gets a full state funeral.

With balaclavas and pistols.

ROSM · Mar 21, 2017

cjd said:
Please don't ever tell us..."you HAVE to respect the man he became".

He was utter scum and if there is a hell, may he burn long and painfully in it.

I'm not telling you that. I'm merely repeating something that a father who had his young son murdered by the IRA said on BBC TV this morning.

My own personal views, for what they're worth, are that for what he did as a member of the IRA he should have had a lifetime in jail. Whether that would have helped or hindered achieving the fragile peace that now exists we will never know.

Foul Play Rocks · Mar 21, 2017

Hillian1 said:
With balaclavas and pistols.

Nothing would surprise me. Heaven forbid any mourning IRA sympathisers should be offended.

ROSM · Mar 21, 2017

Hillian1 said:
The PIRA was so badly infiltrated by British security agents that McGuiness couldn't take a shit without us knowing.

He had no choice but to move into Politics.

If it was so badly infiltrated and if his early death would have helped secure peace earlier, why didn't it happen?

mikeyjh · Mar 21, 2017

ROSM said:
Okay, let's be controversial here.

Was he a terrorist? YES
Was he a murderer? MOST LIKELY
Did he cause pain and suffering to many many families? UNDOUBTEDLY
Did he play a significant part on the peace process? YES
Did his actions in later life improve the prospects for peace in northern Ireland? YES
Did his work with Ian Paisley give hope to many families on both sides? HIGHLY LIKELY

So on balance he seems to have been a sinner who repented. In which case I'm sure the Christians on both sides of this debate will do the Christian thing

It's probably easier to look at what Colin Parry says today which is that you can't forgive what he did but you have to respect the man he became in later life

Enlightened post, and you are correct, it probably will be controversial because some people struggle so much to get past binary.

At some point, I'm sure there will be a very interesting post mortem biography on McGuiness...

jakarta · Mar 21, 2017

Greta start to the day, when that other thug Gerry Adams goes I will be a very happy man. Utter cvnts the pair of them.

jakarta · Mar 21, 2017

mikeyjh said:
it probably will be controversial because some people struggle so much to get past binary.

I don't know why this 'binary' bollocks is creeping into the language but that is what it is, bollocks.

Most normal people 'struggle' with the concept of a mass murderer being anything else but a mass murderer. Happily he is now a dead mass murderer.

Hillian1 · Mar 21, 2017

ROSM said:
If it was so badly infiltrated and if his early death would have helped secure peace earlier, why didn't it happen?

Where was it stated his early death would have brought peace earlier please?

Bold Seagull · Mar 21, 2017

jakarta said:
I don't know why this 'binary' bollocks is creeping into the language but that is what it is, bollocks.

Most normal people 'struggle' with the concept of a mass murderer being anything else but a mass murderer. Happily he is now a dead mass murderer.

As far as I'm concerned something is either binary or it isn't.

Albumen · Mar 21, 2017

Ulster Unionist Leader, Mike Nesbitt MLA, said this will be a “challenging day for victims of the Troubles.”

"I believe no-one needed to die to get Northern Ireland to where it is today. Clearly Martin McGuinness very actively disagreed with that analysis, but I also accept in his later years he was on a journey to create change through politics, becoming a pivotal figure at Stormont.

It would be less than honest if I said other than that I found him a straight-dealing politician in any engagement I had with him.

History will reflect a complex life story."

Colin Parry, whose son Tim died from his injuries after being caught up in an IRA bombing in Warrington town centre in 1993 has told the BBC the McGuiness
"I can only judge him as I found him, a quiet man totally committed to peace process."

Alistair Campbell
"So sad Martin McGuinness has died. Some will never forgive his past but without him there would be no peace. The man I knew was a great guy"

Mary Travers’ sister Ann:
“Losing a loved family member suddenly to violence or illness is heartbreaking,” she said. “Mr McGuinness oversaw a violent terrorist organisation for many years. For the past couple of decades he was given the accolade of peace maker. It’s disappointing and heartbreaking for families of IRA victims that during this period he didn’t give them the answers and acknowledgement that he could have. Today my thoughts are with all the innocents who met their death violently and suddenly, not giving their families the time to adjust and say goodbye.”

A life of war and peace.

The Clamp · Mar 21, 2017

Can you imagine the grim things that man ordered? The families he tore apart in the dark days? Genuinely makes me shudder.

mikeyjh · Mar 21, 2017

jakarta said:
I don't know why this 'binary' bollocks is creeping into the language but that is what it is, bollocks.

I'm not sure 'binary' has crept in to the language?!?! It's not a difficult concept, people are not all good or all bad - As ROSM pointed out, Martin McGuinness has a very dark past, he is also a very important part of the peace process. To recognise the former but not the latter is a mistake.

BN9 BHA · Mar 21, 2017

Good riddance to terrorist scum.

alfredmizen · Mar 21, 2017

jakarta said:
I don't know why this 'binary' bollocks is creeping into the language but that is what it is, bollocks.

Most normal people 'struggle' with the concept of a mass murderer being anything else but a mass murderer. Happily he is now a dead mass murderer.

yep, just about nails it.

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