Shootings and explosion in Paris!

Hastings gull · Nov 14, 2015

granny weatherwax said:
One in nearly a million. It is nieve to believe that there are no idiots in the great long march out of the Middle East, you just have to see how many single young men are on it, however we cannot let that cloud our responsibilities , to help people fleeing civil war and the actions of The murderes
in Iraq/Syria.

People are talking about closing borders, but the consequence of that is the 10k people,who are on the other side of the channel intimidating Larry drivers and tourists alike. Especially now, I expect the French to try and clamp down on the camps at Calais..they certainly have a damn good excuse!

We must also remember that 7/7'was committed by " home grown " murderers! And it looks like a few of these French murderers are also home grown.

Personally I think there is no answer to this and it is one that we have to build the secret service and law enforcement officers to keep a lid on these home grown people. It is up to all society , to accept that with the growth of the murdering faction in Iraq/ Syria our civil liberties may have to be curtailed to try and prevent further attrocities.

It is well documented that the agencies have foiled many plots ....lets just hope our luck holds and this sort of thing in Paris is not regarded as the norm.

The problem is that if we are going to help these people, as you suggest, and I am not suggesting we don't, then the chances are, with increased numbers, that our luck will not hold.

Wozza · Nov 14, 2015

El Presidente said:
Same as before, I'm looking forwards to it. Without being too flippant before France I'm working in the US (33,000 firearms deaths last year), Tanzania (23,000 deaths from malaria) and Qatar (and I'm not wearing a hard hat).

Statistically therefore there's little to be too worried about in terms of terrorism by comparison.

If this is your way of asking me for my ticket for the final, the answer is still 'Non'

Ha. It's okay, I've already seen Germany win a Euro final...

symyjym · Nov 14, 2015

Hastings gull said:
The difference is that llf writes without insults, jibes and makes his points in a way that reasonable debate ensues, instead of nonsense such as "I'm not allowed to".

Ah bless, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.

El Presidente · Nov 14, 2015

Wozza said:
Ha. It's okay, I've already seen Germany win a Euro final...

Was it Nena with '99 Red Balloons' in the Eurovision?

lawros left foot · Nov 14, 2015

melias shoes said:
Just been announced on Sky the passport found on the body of one of the terrorists had passed through greek island of Lesbos in October. There you have it's all the proof you need.

Why on earth would he be carrying his passport? Surely, the longer they can conceal their identities after the event, the more time their co-conspirators would have to either, escape justice, or carry out further atrocities.
I really do think these people aren't criminal masterminds, just brainwashed inadequate specimens of a warped *******ised version of their religion

Beach Hut · Nov 14, 2015

Sadly a mail has arrived from work as we have a large amount of employees in Paris advising our company is desperately trying to find out everyone is OK.

Fellow employees now possibly innocently murdered, this is a terrible state of affairs in this world at present.

El Presidente · Nov 14, 2015

Hastings gull said:
The problem is that if we are going to help these people, as you suggest, and I am not suggesting we don't, then the chances are, with increased numbers, that our luck will not hold.

So we are left with a choice of a humanitarian disaster affecting millions, part of which is of our own making, or an increased probability of terrorism.

There's no right or easy answer. It's a complete mess.

Hastings gull · Nov 14, 2015

symyjym said:
Ah bless, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.

You did not hurt my feelings -I gave you the difference between the maturity shown by the other post and your infantile responses, when, ironically, you say I argue like a child.

AmexRuislip · Nov 14, 2015

Hastings gull said:
You just could not resist the final bit, could you, even though no one mentioned Syria. It just had to come out again, didn't it? Have you thought about joining ISIS -they like fanatics.

Bloody outrageous

JC Footy Genius · Nov 14, 2015

pastafarian said:
indeed,however IS seemed quite clear in their released statement .that this is all about the French current role in bombing IS in Iraq and more recently IS in Syria. No mention of Afghanistan or Blairs Iraq ........really have to go some to still keep linking those past events with whats currently happening especially considering The French are one of the most active in bombing these idiots in the region.

English translation,bunch of loons living in the past ....

The references to previous conflicts was the supposed justification for Al Qaeda related/affiliated terrorism but IS who seem to be another branch of this medieval religious lunacy do as you say have a clear ability to hit back at those bombing them. I am not sure Western liberal democracies (and their people) have the stomach for an ongoing war with an enemy who can bring down airliners or terrorise capital cities. I hope I'm wrong.

Hastings gull · Nov 14, 2015

El Presidente said:
So we are left with a choice of a humanitarian disaster affecting millions, part of which is of our own making, or an increased probability of terrorism.

There's no right or easy answer. It's a complete mess.

Yes, I think you may well be right. Goodness only knows what the solution is. I suppose making life easier in the countries from which they come would be a step in the right direction, but I honestly cannot see this happening.

Publius Ovidius · Nov 14, 2015

Hastings gull said:
The problem is that if we are going to help these people, as you suggest, and I am not suggesting we don't, then the chances are, with increased numbers, that our luck will not hold.

Absolutely, but that is the chance we take in these times. The long march is now such an event in world history and is now attracting so many people just wanting a better life in Europe that it is a wave that cannot be stopped.

Our liberal society and our values means we are bound to help.......I am not sure how , or if we want to, change that.

El Presidente · Nov 14, 2015

Hastings gull said:
Yes, I think you may well be right. Goodness only knows what the solution is. I suppose making life easier in the countries from which they come would be a step in the right direction, but I honestly cannot see this happening.

I suspect the nuances of Middle Eastern politics is beyond us all. There are so many vested interests, US, Qatar, Russia, Saudi, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Israel and so on all have their ideal outcome, support different militias explicitly or covertly, and it by definition if one country gets it's way it will be at the expense of someone else.

Assad is an obnoxious dictator, as was Saddam and Gaddafi, but regime change has not made for a better country for the indigenous population there or the world a safer place.

The foreign policy actions of Bush, Blair, Obama and Cameron have created a power vacuum and the consequent toxic soup within those countries that has allowed ISIS to flourish.

The internet has made the world a flatter, more connected place, so you don't necessarily need training camps in the Middle East to create terrorists and mayhem, just an alienated, disaffected bunch of angry young men (and women) with an internet connection. We learnt that on 7/7.

symyjym · Nov 14, 2015

El Presidente said:
I suspect the nuances of Middle Eastern politics is beyond us all. There are so many vested interests, US, Qatar, Russia, Saudi, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Israel and so on all have their ideal outcome, support different militias explicitly or covertly, and it by definition if one country gets it's way it will be at the expense of someone else.

Assad is an obnoxious dictator, as was Saddam and Gaddafi, but regime change has not made for a better country for the indigenous population there or the world a safer place.

The foreign policy actions of Bush, Blair, Obama and Cameron have created a power vacuum and the consequent toxic soup within those countries that has allowed ISIS to flourish.

The internet has made the world a flatter, more connected place, so you don't necessarily need training camps in the Middle East to create terrorists and mayhem, just an alienated, disaffected bunch of angry young men (and women) with an internet connection. We learnt that on 7/7.

Shhhh Don't mention Bush and Blair to Hastings Gull, apparently he considers talking about it is a bit OCD and has nothing to do with the world today.

Buzzer · Nov 14, 2015

El Presidente said:
The internet has made the world a flatter, more connected place, so you don't necessarily need training camps in the Middle East to create terrorists and mayhem, just an alienated, disaffected bunch of angry young men (and women) with an internet connection. We learnt that on 7/7.

I disagree. The radicalisation of these young men and women started in the 90s with the fanatical clerics in the mosques preaching their hatred. That's where the likes of Anjem Choudry started off. Follow the trails back with each of these youngsters and that's the common factor.

KVLT · Nov 14, 2015

Just been announced by the Pentagon that IS leader in Libya has been killed in an airstrike.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-34823466

Someone else will just fill his shoes though.

Hastings gull · Nov 14, 2015

granny weatherwax said:
Absolutely, but that is the chance we take in these times. The long march is now such an event in world history and is now attracting so many people just wanting a better life in Europe that it is a wave that cannot be stopped.

Our liberal society and our values means we are bound to help.......I am not sure how , or if we want to, change that.

I do see what you are saying and would assume that there is a bit of that in all of us. But realism dictates that we cannot go on like this and I am sure that a military "solution" will be used to try and stem the flow. I suppose it is the numbers game -we are all prepared to help until the numbers are such that it overwhelms us, and we have to put a stop to it. It is going to end in tears, I regret.

El Presidente · Nov 14, 2015

Buzzer said:
I disagree. The radicalisation of these young men and women started in the 90s with the fanatical clerics in the mosques preaching their hatred. That's where the likes of Anjem Choudry started off. Follow the trails back with each of these youngsters and that's the common factor.

I agree that some preachers spouted their crap from mosques then, but they don't even have to use that medium now.

If we stopped the preachers in the mosques are you 100% certain we'd stop the terrorism though?

The world has moved on since the 90's in terms of indoctrination.

wellquickwoody · Nov 14, 2015

El Presidente said:
One of the terrorists was a lezza?

On this topic Sir, you are an arse! Repeatedly trying to derail a perfectly good topic for discussion with low quality one liners just because the consensus does not sit comfortably with your own liberal ideals. It smacks even more of being a poor loser as you originally moved it to 'The Other Stuff' but were overruled by Bozza. Shame on you.

melias shoes · Nov 14, 2015

lawros left foot said:
Why on earth would he be carrying his passport? Surely, the longer they can conceal their identities after the event, the more time their co-conspirators would have to either, escape justice, or carry out further atrocities.
I really do think these people aren't criminal masterminds, just brainwashed inadequate specimens of a warped *******ised version of their religion

Just telling what was reported on Sky News.

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