[Music] Hi-Res streaming + wireless connectivity to another room

Goldstone1976 · Nov 6, 2017

I know that the default option for multi-room streaming is Sonos and spotify/deezer, but I want higher res sound than either can provide.

To replace Sonos, I'm looking at Bluesound, and to replace spotify, I'm looking at Tidal. Anyone got any experience of either or suggestions of other hardware/service?

Linked - I want some new kit for my main listening room. I'm thinking about the NAD M32 with the BluOS module amp tied up with either the PMC TwentyFive.22s or the Quadral Galan 9 speakers.

I really liked the sound of the M32, but am concerned that Sevenoaks are the only UK distributor of NAD and thus their kit may be well overpriced (monopoly pricing and all that). Anyone got any suggestions of another amp/streamer I should listen to (Auralic, maybe?), &/or other speakers?

Thanks for any help!

AmexRuislip · Nov 6, 2017

I'd recommend these guys, have two devices connected as multi room :thumbsup:

Ruark UK

AmexRuislip · Nov 6, 2017

Also got fed up with using ipod in docking station, upgraded ti ipod touch, connected via bluetooth to my unit.
No issues with connection and great sound.

Bozza · Nov 6, 2017

Tidal streams lossless to Sonos doesn't it?

adub68 · Nov 6, 2017

I use Tidal HiRes which I am running without any real degradation through the new Naim Uniti Atom (their entry level player that just needs speakers as it has an integrated pre and power amp). If you want a broader range than Seven Oaks I suggest you look to Audio T on London Road - Julian, John and Pete will give you unbiased advice for your budget. I am v fortunate to have a pair of Fact 12 so would always have a preference for PMC. The only other reliable HiRes service with any decent library is QoBuz. It is French and has as much of a focus on Classical as Tidal has on Rap/Hip Hop!!

Goldstone1976 · Nov 6, 2017

Bozza said:
Tidal streams lossless to Sonos doesn't it?

Sonos' highest quality is 16bit/44.1KHz; Bluesound is 24 bit/192Khz. *Apparently*, Sonos have said they have no intention of ever going higher than 16/44.1. I'm such a newbie at this though. I've done quite a bit of desk research (most of which I didn't understand, tbh), and visited 2 dealers, both of whom have kit to push at me.

adub68 said:
I use Tidal HiRes which I am running without any real degradation through the new Naim Uniti Atom (their entry level player that just needs speakers as it has an integrated pre and power amp). If you want a broader range than Seven Oaks I suggest you look to Audio T on London Road - Julian, John and Pete will give you unbiased advice for your budget. I am v fortunate to have a pair of Fact 12 so would always have a preference for PMC. The only other reliable HiRes service with any decent library is QoBuz. It is French and has as much of a focus on Classical as Tidal has on Rap/Hip Hop!!

Thanks very much!

I've heard of QoBuz. Pros (for me): the library - I'm much more likely to listen to classical than hip hop! Cons: they went bust in 2015 and they seem to scrabbling around a bit now, and are dissing the competition. Opera, on Tidal, is reported to be "Unlistenable" to, as it's not gapless. Any comment? I can't find reliable info on whether QoBuz is gapless. Any info?

I preferred the NAD over the Naim - but it's often down to personal taste...

The whole area is a veritable minefield!

adub68 · Nov 6, 2017

I had read that they got some additional financing at the start of 2017. Qobuz advertise gapless playlists but I have seen on the Naim forum in the past that neither it or Tidal seem to stream gapless well or at all (certainly through Chromcast or google) which I expect for classical in particular could be a real issue. I subscribe to both as I enjoy the heavily discounted download prices on the Qobuz Sublime subscription but clearly Tidal has a wider selection of the more modern / new releases.

Goldstone1976 · Nov 6, 2017

adub68 said:
I had read that they got some additional financing at the start of 2017. Qobuz advertise gapless playlists but I have seen on the Naim forum in the past that neither it or Tidal seem to stream gapless well or at all (certainly through Chromcast or google) which I expect for classical in particular could be a real issue. I subscribe to both as I enjoy the heavily discounted download prices on the Qobuz Sublime subscription but clearly Tidal has a wider selection of the more modern / new releases.

Thanks again. One final question, then I'll leave you alone... why do you want to download albums for an extra cost when you can can just stream them at no extra cost? I can't get my head around why that's useful... is it simply so you can play them when not connected? In which case, won't you be out and about (and thus not using decent kit to play back the sound) and thus lose the quality that you've downloaded?

Bozza · Nov 6, 2017

Goldstone1976 said:
Sonos' highest quality is 16bit/44.1KHz; Bluesound is 24 bit/192Khz. *Apparently*, Sonos have said they have no intention of ever going higher than 16/44.1. I'm such a newbie at this though. I've done quite a bit of desk research (most of which I didn't understand, tbh), and visited 2 dealers, both of whom have kit to push at me.

Tidal might want to revise this from their site then!

"TIDAL is the perfect match for Sonos, streaming music in lossless, high fidelity audio quality, ensuring the best sound experience possible."

adub68 · Nov 6, 2017

Good question. Yes I do a lot of long haul travel. I don't lose anything in quality as I travel with a Chord Hugo DAC for my Mac and an Astell&Kern reference hi-res player (the SP 1000) and a number of different type of headphones / custom IEMs. It costs me stupid money but it is my main thing (after the Albion!!). Good luck with your purchase

Goldstone1976 · Nov 6, 2017

Bozza said:
Tidal might want to revise this from their site then!

"TIDAL is the perfect match for Sonos, streaming music in lossless, high fidelity audio quality, ensuring the best sound experience possible."

I think the confusion is industry-led and deliberate. It lies in the definition of lossless. As I understand it, lossless = same quality as CD, which is 16/44.1. 24/192 (and still higher) are better than CD quality - ie closer to the studio recording.

Both statements are thus true: Sonos does support lossless over Tidal. Bluesound can deliver better than Sonos.

Or something.

CheeseRolls · Nov 6, 2017

Have a read through what these guys have to say and see if this fits with what you are trying to achieve.

https://roonlabs.com/index.html

Goldstone1976 · Nov 6, 2017

CheeseRolls said:
Have a read through what these guys have to say and see if this fits with what you are trying to achieve.

https://roonlabs.com/index.html

Will do. Thanks.

Is it PotG? · Nov 6, 2017

Bit I still can't get my head around, if you have the 24/96 or even 24/192 on external HDDs in some cases then is it better to use wifi or bluetooth to stream to domestic speakers?

CheeseRolls · Nov 6, 2017

Is it PotG? said:
Bit I still can't get my head around, if you have the 24/96 or even 24/192 on external HDDs in some cases then is it better to use wifi or bluetooth to stream to domestic speakers?

Depends of course on versions of Bluetooth and Wifi supported on your equipment end to end and on the playback ability of the receiving device.

Goldstone1976 · Dec 24, 2017

Just in case anyone’s interested, I’ve purchased and set up my new kit, which sounds spectacular:

Croft 25R pre-amp
Croft 7R power amp
Harbeth 30.1 speakers (a Sussex company!)
Something Solid speaker stands
Bluesound Vault 2 (a combined streamer and CD ripper/NAS) connected physically to router
Bluesound Pulse 2 (a speaker system wirelessly connected to the Vault) in the kitchen
Tidal (supported by Bluesound)
Primephonic (for classical) - headphone jack out to RCA in on Vault. Applying pressure on Bluesound to integrate it and issue firmware patch.

Discounts available on all kit - ranging from 14% to 21.5%.

1066familyman · Apr 28, 2020

Goldstone1976 said:
Just in case anyone’s interested, I’ve purchased and set up my new kit, which sounds spectacular:

Croft 25R pre-amp
Croft 7R power amp
Harbeth 30.1 speakers (a Sussex company!)
Something Solid speaker stands
Bluesound Vault 2 (a combined streamer and CD ripper/NAS) connected physically to router
Bluesound Pulse 2 (a speaker system wirelessly connected to the Vault) in the kitchen
Tidal (supported by Bluesound)
Primephonic (for classical) - headphone jack out to RCA in on Vault. Applying pressure on Bluesound to integrate it and issue firmware patch.

Discounts available on all kit - ranging from 14% to 21.5%.

How you getting on with Tidal on that rather nice sounding set up?

I mulled over what hifi streaming service to finally take up, having only briefly dabbled with free services up until now.

My hifi set up isn't on a par with yours, but for something I'll end up paying for I don't want to listen to mp3's. I've gone for the Deezer hifi trial at the mo. Whilst my hifi set up can take 24 bit/192khz I'm not entirely sure I believe the marketing hype around 'hi res' audio. I can hear the difference between lossy and lossless easily enough, but not convinced I'll hear such a big difference between 16bit vs 24bit (let alone getting into MQA). Plus, I do a lot of listening to ripped flac files on my Cowon DAP (which doesn't go up to 24bit anyway) and I'm perfectly happy with the quailty there with my hifiman headphones.

So it really came down to function, features and library size when comparing flac streaming services.

I ruled out Qobuz on the grounds of a slightly limited library.

I am tempted to give Tidal a try to see if I can appreciate 24bit over 16bit, but been a bit put off by their supposed hip hop bent. Although tbf their library pretty much matches Deezer from the play arounds I've had with their search engines. But I just don't think i'll make use of the 24 bit, let alone MQA especially as I sometimes use an old android phone for casual playback through headphones or bluetooth work speaker and haven't added a usb dac to it.

I'm really falling in love with Deezer. Audio quality is lovely across all my platforms and the useability is really friendly. Flow function is pretty good. They have some cracking mixes based on styles of music and even have podcasts and live radio. Favouriting and creating my own playlists is easy too.

So, in short, are you still with Tidal? What is it you most like about it, and is there anything you haven't got on with on it?
You have the set up to really appreciate the best quality audio available, so is there a big difference between 16bit and 24bit in general (depends on the recording obviously) to your ears or is this 'hi res' move more about marketing hype? And what of MQA?. Are you able to get the full benefit of those files?, and if so, are they generally a step up again in terms of quailty, to your ears?

Primephonic sounds interesting. Although I could only afford one streaming service and so for my limited Classical listening and discovering I'll stick with Radio 3.

Goldstone1976 · Apr 29, 2020

1066familyman said:
How you getting on with Tidal on that rather nice sounding set up?

I mulled over what hifi streaming service to finally take up, having only briefly dabbled with free services up until now.

My hifi set up isn't on a par with yours, but for something I'll end up paying for I don't want to listen to mp3's. I've gone for the Deezer hifi trial at the mo. Whilst my hifi set up can take 24 bit/192khz I'm not entirely sure I believe the marketing hype around 'hi res' audio. I can hear the difference between lossy and lossless easily enough, but not convinced I'll hear such a big difference between 16bit vs 24bit (let alone getting into MQA). Plus, I do a lot of listening to ripped flac files on my Cowon DAP (which doesn't go up to 24bit anyway) and I'm perfectly happy with the quailty there with my hifiman headphones.

So it really came down to function, features and library size when comparing flac streaming services.

I ruled out Qobuz on the grounds of a slightly limited library.

I am tempted to give Tidal a try to see if I can appreciate 24bit over 16bit, but been a bit put off by their supposed hip hop bent. Although tbf their library pretty much matches Deezer from the play arounds I've had with their search engines. But I just don't think i'll make use of the 24 bit, let alone MQA especially as I sometimes use an old android phone for casual playback through headphones or bluetooth work speaker and haven't added a usb dac to it.

I'm really falling in love with Deezer. Audio quality is lovely across all my platforms and the useability is really friendly. Flow function is pretty good. They have some cracking mixes based on styles of music and even have podcasts and live radio. Favouriting and creating my own playlists is easy too.

So, in short, are you still with Tidal? What is it you most like about it, and is there anything you haven't got on with on it?
You have the set up to really appreciate the best quality audio available, so is there a big difference between 16bit and 24bit in general (depends on the recording obviously) to your ears or is this 'hi res' move more about marketing hype? And what of MQA?. Are you able to get the full benefit of those files?, and if so, are they generally a step up again in terms of quailty, to your ears?

Primephonic sounds interesting. Although I could only afford one streaming service and so for my limited Classical listening and discovering I'll stick with Radio 3.

I can can barely tell the difference between 16bit and 24bit, even with bins. However, and you’re going to hate me for saying this, the difference between MQA and either 16 or 24bit is startling. It’s much more open and the detail (eg breathing, fretting, or sizzle on cymbals) is crystal clear.

Tidal - meh. I still have it, but only for three reasons: a bigger MQA library; I like many of the playlists; I get a 50% discount. If any one of those weren’t there, I’d ditch it. Qobuz? Meh, with no redeeming features, imo. Primephonic - just by far the best for classical - but still not native in BluOS. Grrr.

getz · Apr 29, 2020

Not sure I can say this. Tidal are offering four months subscription for £4. Look out for the pop up ads. Have just signed up.

Bozza · Apr 29, 2020

1066familyman said:
I'm really falling in love with Deezer. Audio quality is lovely across all my platforms and the useability is really friendly. Flow function is pretty good.

Not if you share an account with the kids in your family. Flow plays all manner of shit* for me.

(* - stuff my kids listen to)

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[Music] Hi-Res streaming + wireless connectivity to another room

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