May Has 10 days.

larus · Jun 18, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
Willfully excluding up to date Tory figures for comparison proves this?

Wow, have you had too much sun today?

My post stated what a 'cluster-f*ck' of an economy the coalition inherited from Labour.

You questioned that.

The charts prove when the annual deficit was in 2008/9, 2009/10, 2010/11. This PROVES what a state the country was in. The improvements made since then to the annual deficit have been slower then initially projects because there was an outcry against 'austerity'.

So, I have proved that the public finances were in a disastrous state when Labour got kicked out. I Ihope you go back and review what I stated before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

larus · Jun 18, 2017

Diego Napier said:
Neither do I.

You're rather dimmer and a lot angrier than I'd originally imagined.

Maybe you should consider your responses if you want to engage rather than alienate other posters. Comments such as

"Your earnest straw-clutching spin demonstrates clearly how wedded you are to the tories, bringing to mind Wilde's quote about marriage:- " after I had replied with a reasoned post to your question shows a certain degree of arrogance and jumping to assumptions about someone. But, I have always found the lefties tend to have this delusional attitude of being better than others.

highflyer · Jun 18, 2017

NooBHA said:
Helping the less well off in society is a ''bribe'' ?

I would say it's called ''social policy'' - And he would have delivered

Bribes and incentives were offered in the campaign. Very costly ones too. But they were offered to the rich, the big corporations and the press, in the form of tax breaks, deregulation and the dropping of Leveson 2.

What we have seen is an emerging understanding that we have a clear choice now as to who's interests are given priority in the way we run our country. The days of 'there is no alternative' are rightly numbered. TINA has been buried.

A Corbyn led Labour can win an election, little doubt, although nothing can be taken for granted. The biggest challenge is not winning but governing. Massive vested interests working against them, uncooperative civil emservants and a lack of experience in his team. It won't be easy. That is why so much effort has been put into the building of a 'movement' - they know they will need a really strong base of local support to see them through.

Interesting times ahead.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Herr Tubthumper · Jun 18, 2017

larus said:
Wow, have you had too much sun today?

My post stated what a 'cluster-f*ck' of an economy the coalition inherited from Labour.

You questioned that.

The charts prove when the annual deficit was in 2008/9, 2009/10, 2010/11. This PROVES what a state the country was in. The improvements made since then to the annual deficit have been slower then initially projects because there was an outcry against 'austerity'.

So, I have proved that the public finances were in a disastrous state when Labour got kicked out. I Ihope you go back and review what I stated before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

To get a true picture you can't just look at the deficit or debt, as I was. Deficit needs to be in the context of debt and GDP. Labour inherited a debt of 40% GDP. At end of their tenure 13 years later it had increased 20% to 60%. Let's not forget his included the financial crises. Now, under the Tories just 7 years later, it's a whopping 89%. So, the levels of deficit might have reduced but these levels were highly inappropriate, wreckless even, given the level of debt they inherited and the GDP they were operating.

Ernest · Jun 18, 2017

Tom Hark said:
Love her or loathe her, I'd hope that on at some human level you can only stand back and admire the sheer CONSTITUTION of somebody who withstood the constant hiding-to-nothing politicking of being Home Secretary for six full years. And now has to deal with the aftermath of multiple terrorist attacks and a full blown mass fire death scandal, all in her own back yard, while all the while trying to fend off being stabbed in the back by her own back benchers on account of a failed vanity election. Like I say, love her or loathe her - and I personally loathe her - you can only look on in wonder at how somebody would want to even stay on in that utterly thankless job. It certainly can't be for the money.

Perhaps she is not being allowed to resign

Poyningsgull · Jun 18, 2017

Get a life chaps. It a lovely day

Herr Tubthumper · Jun 18, 2017

Poyningsgull said:
Get a life chaps. It a lovely day

I was out until 6 and I'm in bed hungover. I have a legitimate reason :smile:

beorhthelm · Jun 18, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
To get a true picture you can't just look at the deficit or debt, as I was. Deficit needs to be in the context of debt and GDP. Labour inherited a debt of 40% GDP. At end of their tenure 13 years later it had increased 20% to 60%. Let's not forget his included the financial crises. Now, under the Tories just 7 years later, it's a whopping 89%. So, the levels of deficit might have reduced but these levels were highly inappropriate, wreckless even, given the level of debt they inherited and the GDP they were operating.

im glad you recognise that the spending commitments where inappropriate, that is indeed why deficit has been difficult to reduce and the debt has grown so much. whats your view on the Labour commitment to reverse the trend, increasing the deficit by so much?

Jim D · Jun 18, 2017

Ernest said:
Perhaps she is not being allowed to resign

In that case what's all this '10 days' nonsense?

larus · Jun 18, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
To get a true picture you can't just look at the deficit or debt, as I was. Deficit needs to be in the context of debt and GDP. Labour inherited a debt of 40% GDP. At end of their tenure 13 years later it had increased 20% to 60%. Let's not forget his included the financial crises. Now, under the Tories just 7 years later, it's a whopping 89%. So, the levels of deficit might have reduced but these levels were highly inappropriate, wreckless even, given the level of debt they inherited and the GDP they were operating.

But you're cherry picking numbers. There is no way the annual deficit could have been dramatically cut under the Tories without severs harm to the economy. Therefore, the reason for the high national debt now is the legacy of the last Labour Government and the deficit inherited by the Tories.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pfi-deals-will-cost-taxpayers-209bn-over-next-35-years-a6966986.html

Interesting article where Corbyn also states that in his opinion, the PFI debacle (started by the Tories by expanded greatly under Labour) was unsustainable. This debt was not included in the national debt BTW, to the reality is, the situation was even worse and these payments come from annual taxation. GB screwed us over trying to pretend he was so prudent. Yeah, right.

Ernest · Jun 18, 2017

Jim D said:
In that case what's all this '10 days' nonsense?

Usual FRENZIED newspaper speculation

martin tyler · Jun 18, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
To get a true picture you can't just look at the deficit or debt, as I was. Deficit needs to be in the context of debt and GDP. Labour inherited a debt of 40% GDP. At end of their tenure 13 years later it had increased 20% to 60%. Let's not forget his included the financial crises. Now, under the Tories just 7 years later, it's a whopping 89%. So, the levels of deficit might have reduced but these levels were highly inappropriate, wreckless even, given the level of debt they inherited and the GDP they were operating.

I would say the majority of people's debt would be a mortgage and with the way house prices have risen over the past 10 years I am not really shocked that national debt has risen at such a rate. You ever want to get it I'm under control you have to find a solution to this or the % debt will only increase.
The next generation of kids will really struggle to get on the property ladder certainly across the SE area.

Herr Tubthumper · Jun 18, 2017

larus said:
But you're cherry picking numbers.

You do know what cherry picking means? I have presented and considered the three main measures which are debt, deficit and GDP. You on the other hand just presented deficit. If you feel I have cherry picked my metrics then please let me know which others we should discuss.

Herr Tubthumper · Jun 18, 2017

martin tyler said:
I would say the majority of people's debt would be a mortgage and with the way house prices have risen over the past 10 years I am not really shocked that national debt has risen at such a rate. You ever want to get it I'm under control you have to find a solution to this or the % debt will only increase.
The next generation of kids will really struggle to get on the property ladder certainly across the SE area.

I am talking about government debt. Bu you raise a good point about domestic debt. Or am I misunderstanding you?

symyjym · Jun 18, 2017

May has 31 days

martin tyler · Jun 18, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
I am talking about government debt. Bu you raise a good point about domestic debt. Or am I misunderstanding you?

No your not misunderstanding me. That's what I meant. I was meant to add reference Gov debt.

Think figures can be played both ways.
National Deficite figures would say since conservatives came in the year on year borrowing has shrunk. 2009 figures of the last labour year show a deficite of 103 billion. Obviously things have to be taken into account. 2008 recession obviously a very big factor.
Since then the deficite has been cut year on year to this year it is estimated to be around 15 billion.
However it is still a deficite and therefore % wise against GDP you would expect it to still be growing. Hence why it has risen from 60-89%.
Obviously GO did initially say the deficite would be gone by 2015. Then revised it to 2017 but at current rates realistically we will be waiting till 2020 at best for the deficite to be wiped out. Until then % against GDP will still rise.
If it is still a Tory Gov come 2020 and they have wiped out te deficite then you would expect the % debt against GDP to fall. They may then loosen the purse strings a bit more or they may decide to try and work on wiping out some National debts. I don't know which.
Personal opinion only but I would think based on what JC has planned for spending if he came in to power I think the deficite will go back the other way and increase and the % rise against GDP will also increase at a much quicker rate as we would be borrowing more as a country. Some people are fine with this others don't think it's a stable way forward.

Tom Hark Preston Park · Jun 18, 2017

Poyningsgull said:
Get a life chaps. It a lovely day

Given normal circumstances the residents of Grenfell Tower would be out enjoying the lovely day also

Diego Napier · Jun 18, 2017

larus said:
Maybe you should consider your responses if you want to engage rather than alienate other posters. Comments such as

"Your earnest straw-clutching spin demonstrates clearly how wedded you are to the tories, bringing to mind Wilde's quote about marriage:- " after I had replied with a reasoned post to your question shows a certain degree of arrogance and jumping to assumptions about someone. But, I have always found the lefties tend to have this delusional attitude of being better than others.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, it's you who's laden with the persecutional delusions.

Just wind you up and off you go, little clockwork toy.

larus · Jun 18, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
You do know what cherry picking means? I have presented and considered the three main measures which are debt, deficit and GDP. You on the other hand just presented deficit. If you feel I have cherry picked my metrics then please let me know which others we should discuss.

My initial post (which you commented on) was about the level of deficit inherited by the Tories from Labour. This is proved by the charts. So, if the deficit had not been reduced, then level of debt we have now would be much higher (even you can't disagree with basic mathematics). So far you have not managed to say one thing which shows that the level of deficit inherited was very high. You have resorted to changing the goalposts and selecting debt as the matrix now and not annual deficit.

So yes, I do understand what cherry picking is and you are demonstrating the art form exceedingly well.

Please will you confirm that an annual deficit of 11% is not sustainable for an economy (this is what the Tories inherited from Labour).

larus · Jun 18, 2017

Diego Napier said:
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, it's you who's laden with the persecutional delusions.

Just wind you up and off you go, little clockwork toy.

Oh dear, touched on a raw nerve have I? I can assure you, I don't feel persecuted at all. Then again, I don't have an entitlement complex which so many seem to have. I started life with nothing and whatever I have achieved has been through my own hard graft and sacrifice. I've never had the politics of envy, even when I had nothing and life was a bitch.

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