Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Film] Spitfire: The Movie



Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
OK fair enough but the war ended in 1945 and the air war ended way before then at least in Britain we arent talking a massive window. If we are talking the entirety of the 1940's then its none of the above;
Well the quote didn't mention the Battle of Britain, so I assume it meant the war years in general. It said it includes archive footage, and I imagine that's not just from 1940, but from the whole war, and the Spitfire was busy throughout the war, not just in the BoB.

I love the Spitfire, I've spent many hours (thousands) flying them in the online combat flight sim IL2. It is iconic, it is a source of national pride, it is a fantastic fighter. But British people who don't know better can be fooled into thinking it was unrivalled, when it's simply not true.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
I'm genuinely astonished the makers of this film didn't get in touch with you when researching this film. Clearly they have just used a bunch of feckless amateurs.
Mock away, I guess you've got nothing to counter my argument.
 


The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jan 11, 2016
24,277
West is BEST
Mock away, I guess you've got nothing to counter my argument.

Somebody else earlier with far more knowledge on the subject than you or I already comprehensively countered your argument.
But as you say, you have spent many hours playing a spitfire video game so you'd definitely know more than the researchers and veteran Spitfire pilots that contributed to this upcoming film.
It was just a thread to let those interested in such things know about an interesting film. Thas all.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
Somebody else earlier with far more knowledge on the subject than you or I already comprehensively countered your argument.
Which post number was that, because I haven't seen my argument countered?
But as you say, you have spent many hours playing a spitfire video game so you'd definitely know more than the researchers and veteran Spitfire pilots that contributed to this upcoming film.
You're talking such crap. Are you trying to claim that every pilot that contributed to the film has stated that the Spitfire was unrivalled throughout the war? Just because someone in marketing wrote it for the program synopsis doesn't mean that the experts or veterans agree with it.

I've also read plenty of pilot accounts of what they'd do depending on the aircraft the enemy was in, and what the enemy would do. Would they take a passing shot and then run, would they try and engage in a turning fight, or vertical fight, etc.
 


Hungry Joe

SINNEN
Oct 22, 2004
7,636
Heading for shore
Just because someone in marketing wrote it for the program synopsis.....

I think this is the salient point, and as such arguing with / against it as a definitive statement that needs countering is pretty pointless and is spoiling what was supposed to be a general interest thread about what a great machine the Spitfire is.
 




Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
I think this is the salient point
Thanks.
and as such arguing with / against it as a definitive statement that needs countering is pretty pointless
A lot of Brits mistakenly think the Spitfire just waltzed around cleaning up the skies. It actually does a discredit to those that risked their lives flying them. All I did was point out that it's incorrect to say it was unrivalled. No big deal, people can accept that, and go back to discussing the film, or how great the Spitfire is. It's only that some idiot wants to make that into a big argument claiming I'm wrong, when I'm not.
 


BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,013
I think this is the salient point, and as such arguing with / against it as a definitive statement that needs countering is pretty pointless and is spoiling what was supposed to be a general interest thread about what a great machine the Spitfire is.

Sad isn't it. We could start a thread about puppies and someone would start a row :facepalm:
 


Silverhatch

Well-known member
Feb 23, 2009
4,271
Preston Park
No, the post read "archive footage from the tumultuous days of the 1940s when her power in the skies was unrivalled."

As above, no, it isn't.

The 1940 Spitfire would cut out with negative g-force, due to it's carburettor, while the bf-109E was fuel injected and had no such trouble. The Spit could turn sharper, but the Emil (the 109E) had a better roll rate and was good in vertical fights. Not sure there was a lot between them.

All correct and the 109 had a bloody great propeller mounted cannon that often mortally wounded a Spit but not necessarily a fabric covered Hurricane. But as you say the crucial thing is that the Spitfire could turn on a sixpence and as many pilots said it could fly itself. Hurricane was a bit slower, had an even better turning circle than a Spitfire but was a better gun platform so was tasked with engaging bombers while the Spitfires went after fighter escorts. Reading the comments of BOB pilots they fiercely defend their respective positions regarding Spitfire v Hurricane but all appear to agree that the two British fighters were wonderfully complimentary products. As History.Net says "The fact that the Hurricane was responsible for more enemy aircraft destroyed is eclipsed by the Spitfire’s graceful silhouette and romantic legend. Glamour usually outshines performance, in war as in love."
 




Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
Somebody else earlier with far more knowledge on the subject than you or I already comprehensively countered your argument.
But as you say, you have spent many hours playing a spitfire video game so you'd definitely know more than the researchers and veteran Spitfire pilots that contributed to this upcoming film.
It was just a thread to let those interested in such things know about an interesting film. Thas all.

I'm with [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] on this one, but also with [MENTION=3052]Hungry Joe[/MENTION] that I wouldn't really get into a hypothetical argument about it, there is no doubt the Spitfire is a legendary icon. All the first person accounts I've read, both allied and german pilots alike, that the Spitfire (particularly the mark 1) and the me109 were very evenly matched. Both had their faults, both had their advantages. What I think [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] has got right is that there is an illusion that our pilots went up in vastly superior machines likely to blow everything out of the sky, that isn't really true, and as many first hand accounts would say, dog fights didn't occur that much after Dunkirk, in the Battle of Britain itself, you either came out of the sun from a higher altitude and surprised the enemy, or they did it to you.
 


Hungry Joe

SINNEN
Oct 22, 2004
7,636
Heading for shore
A lot of Brits mistakenly think the Spitfire just waltzed around cleaning up the skies. It actually does a discredit to those that risked their lives flying them.

Don't disagree with that at all, just not sure how far the general ignorance goes on this, I think most people are at least aware of the Hurricane and its involvement. The Spitfire will always be the iconic image of our fight against tyranny for its sheer aesthetics as much as anything, and I don't see a problem with that.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
I think most people are at least aware of the Hurricane and its involvement. The Spitfire will always be the iconic image of our fight against tyranny for its sheer aesthetics as much as anything, and I don't see a problem with that.
Neither do I. I was referring the the Spit's abilities compared to aircraft from other countries though.
 




No, the post read "archive footage from the tumultuous days of the 1940s when her power in the skies was unrivalled."

As above, no, it isn't.

The 1940 Spitfire would cut out with negative g-force, due to it's carburettor, while the bf-109E was fuel injected and had no such trouble. The Spit could turn sharper, but the Emil (the 109E) had a better roll rate and was good in vertical fights. Not sure there was a lot between them.
I saw a 1970s interview with 1 of the Rolls Royce engineers who worked on the Merlin engine. He said that Rolls Royce were fully aware of fuel injection but when they tried to fit it onto the early Merlin engine, the engine power cut by about 10% so they stuck with the tried and tested carburetors instead.
I'll see if I can find the interview\programme.
 


The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jan 11, 2016
24,277
West is BEST
Which post number was that, because I haven't seen my argument countered?
You're talking such crap. Are you trying to claim that every pilot that contributed to the film has stated that the Spitfire was unrivalled throughout the war? Just because someone in marketing wrote it for the program synopsis doesn't mean that the experts or veterans agree with it.

I've also read plenty of pilot accounts of what they'd do depending on the aircraft the enemy was in, and what the enemy would do. Would they take a passing shot and then run, would they try and engage in a turning fight, or vertical fight, etc.


No. I am certain that the pilots will mention other craft, as will the wider film. Which is rather my point. We have to see the film before people can start flying off the handle that they haven't given other planes enough credit.

And yes, someone did address your point a few pages back, have a look yersen.
 


The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jan 11, 2016
24,277
West is BEST
I'm with [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] on this one, but also with [MENTION=3052]Hungry Joe[/MENTION] that I wouldn't really get into a hypothetical argument about it, there is no doubt the Spitfire is a legendary icon. All the first person accounts I've read, both allied and german pilots alike, that the Spitfire (particularly the mark 1) and the me109 were very evenly matched. Both had their faults, both had their advantages. What I think [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] has got right is that there is an illusion that our pilots went up in vastly superior machines likely to blow everything out of the sky, that isn't really true, and as many first hand accounts would say, dog fights didn't occur that much after Dunkirk, in the Battle of Britain itself, you either came out of the sun from a higher altitude and surprised the enemy, or they did it to you.

Where have I stated anything about Spitfire being the be all and end all? I posted a link to a film about spitfires. As per, [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] does his Know-It-All act and totally neglects the fact I haven't offered an argument either way. I did find his claim that playing video games has given him superior knowledge though, I wonder if he wears a leather flying cap and goggles while playing :lolol:
 




Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
Where have I stated anything about Spitfire being the be all and end all? I posted a link to a film about spitfires. As per, @Triggar does his Know-It-All act and totally neglects the fact I haven't offered an argument either way. I did find his claim that playing video games has given him superior knowledge though, I wonder if he wears a leather flying cap and goggles while playing :lolol:

I think you've taken the discussion a bit personally? It turned into a general debate about the Battle of Britain, the Spitfire, the other aircraft. Like you said, you've not really offered an argument, but not sure why Trig has riled you so much? :shrug:
 


The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jan 11, 2016
24,277
West is BEST
I think you've taken the discussion a bit personally? It turned into a general debate about the Battle of Britain, the Spitfire, the other aircraft. Like you said, you've not really offered an argument, but not sure why Trig has riled you so much? :shrug:

I am not riled in the slightest. His argument hasn't riled me, he is likely correct. It's the use of phrases like "You're talking such crap" that annoy me. It's a thread about a subject that I know people will be interested in. As per, NSC's finest turn it into a slanging match. I''ll leave you to it.
 


Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
I am not riled in the slightest. His argument hasn't riled me, he is likely correct. It's the use of phrases like "You're talking such crap" that annoy me. It's a thread about a subject that I know people will be interested in. As per, NSC's finest turn it into a slanging match. I''ll leave you to it.

Well I've certainly not turned it into anything other than a reasoned chat about and interesting period in our history. :thumbsup:
 


The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jan 11, 2016
24,277
West is BEST
Well I've certainly not turned it into anything other than a reasoned chat about and interesting period in our history. :thumbsup:

Wasn't aimed at you. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the film and spending a couple of hours in the company of a beautiful aircraft and the brave souls who piloted them. :clap2:
 




Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
Thoroughly enjoyed this as a read, contains many actual entries into the flight logbooks and first hand accounts of the engagements as well as setting out the entire battle period.

51As7kuUq%2BL._SX323_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
 





Paying the bills

Latest Discussions

Paying the bills

Paying the bills

Paying the bills

Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here