[Politics] Brexit

JC Footy Genius · Mar 2, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Some people just don't get the idea of 'pooling sovereignty' and would see it as a contradiction in terms. I'd be more sympathetic to their idea if it weren't for the fact that we hardly live in the perfect democracy - minority governments, low turnouts and basically a country run by Oxbridge graduates.

For 'pooling' see continually surrendering without any specific democratic mandate.

Baldseagull · Mar 2, 2018

dingodan said:
Our parliament which we elect making laws vs the EU Commission making laws.

"Us" means we have democratic accountability, "someone else" means we don't.

You are being a little obtuse to be honest.

You are wrong about EU democratic accountability, we elect our member on the Council when we elect a Prime Minister, we elect our MEP's at EU elections, and they elect the Prseident and the Commission. The Commission, the bit we don't directly elect does not legislate, it proposes, the Parliament can vote the Commission out if it feels it is required.
How is that less accountable than two houses in the UK, one of which is entirely unelected?

Garry Nelson's teacher · Mar 2, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
For 'pooling' see continually surrendering without any specific democratic mandate.

Thank you for being so utterly predicable and thereby supporting my observation. I'm not one to trade insults on the thread but there is something of the '4 legs good, 2 legs bad' mentality about some of our Leaver friends.

JC Footy Genius · Mar 2, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
Thank you for being so utterly predicable and thereby supporting my observation. I'm not one to trade insults on the thread but there is something of the '4 legs good, 2 legs bad' mentality about some of our Leaver friends.

If wanting a specific democratic mandate to continually cede sovereignty is a problem for you then a 1984 mentality is more your problem than mine.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Mar 2, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
If wanting a specific democratic mandate to continually cede sovereignty is a problem for you then a 1984 mentality is more your problem than mine.

I just observed that you (well your fellow leaver actually) regard sovereignty as something that cannot be 'pooled', that's all. And I think that the way you use the words 'cede' and 'surrender' show that you frame the matter in precisely this way. Believe it or not it wasn't an insult or even a criticism. And as for your Orwellian reference, I think you might be mistaking 1984 with Animal Farm. You reflexive bleating did remind of the sheep (I think it was the sheep) in the latter.

Have a pleasant evening, buoyed by the performance of Mrs May today whose speech I thought was better than I anticipated and will trigger sweet leaver dreams throughout this green and pleasant land transformed by the beneficent funding of the Common Agriculture Policy and certainly to be further enhanced by the ministrations of the ever-popular Mr Gove.

JC Footy Genius · Mar 2, 2018

Garry Nelson's teacher said:
I just observed that you (well your fellow leaver actually) regard sovereignty as something that cannot be 'pooled', that's all. And I think that the way you use the words 'cede' and 'surrender' show that you frame the matter in precisely this way. Believe it or not it wasn't an insult or even a criticism. And as for your Orwellian reference, I think you might be mistaking 1984 with Animal Farm. You reflexive bleating did remind of the sheep (I think it was the sheep) in the latter.

Have a pleasant evening, buoyed by the performance of Mrs May today whose speech I thought was better than I anticipated and will trigger sweet leaver dreams throughout this green and pleasant land transformed by the beneficent funding of the Common Agriculture Policy and certainly to be further enhanced by the ministrations of the ever-popular Mr Gove.

One persons 'pooled' is another's 'surrendered' especially when there is no specific democratic mandate. I get the impression you are trying your best to maintain a position of reasoned impartiality but in truth I expect you know you are as partisan as I am. Cutting through the bull it's a very two answer option. I have no illusions about leaving but I do think it's a better option than staying in the quicksand.

Hampster Gull · Mar 2, 2018

JC Footy Genius said:
One persons 'pooled' is another's 'surrendered' especially when there is no specific democratic mandate. I get the impression you are trying your best to maintain a position of reasoned impartiality but in truth I expect you know you are as partisan as I am. Cutting through the bull it's a very two answer option. I have no illusions about leaving but I do think it's a better option than staying in the quicksand.

The quicksand that has helped us be more posperous than ever before.

JC Footy Genius · Mar 2, 2018

Hampster Gull said:
The quicksand that has helped us be more posperous than ever before.

Many countries are more prosperous than before in or out of the EU. The quicksand that leads to ever closer union and a point of no return ..

Herr Tubthumper · Mar 2, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
The MHRA is the UK equivalent of the EMA. Once Brexit happens they will have to handle every single drug application, license as well as uphold law and monitor and manage which comes Britain’s way....or wants to come Britain’s way. We’re talking about a heavyily regulated industry here; and before some twit cries EU red-tape think about why this might be. The majority of this work is conducted by the EMA which allows the MHRA to concentrate on specific UK items. But even with specific items they still mandate some stuff to the EMA. There is absolutely no way the MHRA will be able to bring everything in-house and do it all from the UK; not a cat-in-hells chance. This is due to the sheer volume of work and the nature of the staff they’d need to obtain. As I see it there are three outcomes

1) MHRA continues to operate with the EMA...only possible with a very soft Brexit due to the complex pan-EU pharma laws.
2) Stuff gets, at best delayed or at worse not approved.
3) UK becomes the Wild-west with medicines.

Herr Tubthumper said:
Assuming everything comes in house, and before we go any further, care to explain how a drug could get approved if the staff don’t exist in the UK? Do you think the staff can be recruited? I’m just popping some options out there. But this is perplexing to many in the industry, many with far greater brains and experience than us.

As an aside, my bet is 1)

BigGully said:
you really do talk some shite you really do ......

“Brexit: Theresa May reveals UK willing to pay to remain part of European agencies for medicine”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hemical-aerospace-uk-pay-remain-a8236916.html

So [MENTION=5101]BigGully[/MENTION]. If you recall, your considered and measured response to mine, and others, analysis of the U.K. pharma situation was nothing more than a handful of dismissive swear words. Looks like I called it spot on :wink:

I look forward to your reply.

nicko31 · Mar 3, 2018

Well written blog, sums up the week well

http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.co.uk/2018/03/four-speeches-and-wake-up-call.html

Not sure if yesterday changed anything, still a lot more questions than answers. Labour's move this week could proven pivotal, the EU will certainly taking note

Will Brexit happen? Yes, probably

Titanic · Mar 3, 2018

The Guardian and the BBC chief remoaning organs... who would have thought it?

Blue Valkyrie · Mar 3, 2018

Titanic said:
The Guardian and the BBC chief remoaning organs... who would have thought it?

That is just perception, not fact

In fact, the BBC is also perceived as the most 'neither' as well

Pinkie Brown · Mar 3, 2018

Titanic said:
The Guardian and the BBC chief remoaning organs... who would have thought it?

Either fake news or they surveyed mainly idiots. Even the most rabid leaver couldn't claim The Fail, The Scum etc, are anti Brexit. Anyone who believes that, needs to give their head a swivel rather than their eyes....

WATFORD zero · Mar 3, 2018

So -

We want to stay in some EU institutions but not others
We want to accept ECJ rulings on some things but not others
We want to pay into some EU institutions but not others
We want to have controls over some goods but not others
We will accept some regulatory controls but not others

That's clear then. If the EU have a problem with that it's obvious to everyone that they're the troublemakers :facepalm:

TM's speech in full

BigGully · Mar 3, 2018

Herr Tubthumper said:
“Brexit: Theresa May reveals UK willing to pay to remain part of European agencies for medicine”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...hemical-aerospace-uk-pay-remain-a8236916.html

So [MENTION=5101]BigGully[/MENTION]. If you recall, your considered and measured response to mine, and others, analysis of the U.K. pharma situation was nothing more than a handful of dismissive swear words. Looks like I called it spot on I look forward to your reply.

I am surprised that you are somehow claiming this as some personal success, I and other posters claimed you were scaremongering when you stated that the UK might experience 'delayed medicine' and the UK would become the 'Wild West with medicine'.

You and other posters claimed the UK after Brexit wouldn't be able to access cancer drugs nor other critical medicines, I and other posters countered that thisby saying this was never likely to happen.

The problem is that if you had just posted 1) MHRA continues to operate with the EMA...only possible with a very soft Brexit due to the complex pan-EU pharma laws. that might have been quite reasonable, but of course you didnt you added other likely disaster scenarios that always to me remained absurd.

Come back when the UK has delayed critical medicines and has become the 'Wild West' with medicine and you might then have a morsel of point.

The Clamp · Mar 3, 2018

BigGully said:
I am surprised that you are somehow claiming this as some personal success, I and other posters claimed you were scaremongering when you stated that the UK might experience 'delayed medicine' and the UK would become the 'Wild West with medicine'.

You and other posters claimed the UK after Brexit wouldn't be able to access cancer drugs nor other critical medicines, I and other posters countered that this was was never likely to happen.

The problem is that if you had just posted 1) MHRA continues to operate with the EMA...only possible with a very soft Brexit due to the complex pan-EU pharma laws. that might have been quite reasonable, but of course you didnt you added other likely disaster scenarios that always to me remained absurd.

Come back when the UK has delayed critical medicines and has become the 'Wild West' with medicine and you might then have a morsel of point.

Sorry to be a pain. Can you do me a favour? Just ****off from this thread for 24 hours and let the grown ups talk about the matter in hand without your endless bullshite. By all means come back tomorrow but just 24 hours respite from your arsewittery would be a real treat. Just give us a bit of grown up time, yeah?

BigGully · Mar 3, 2018

The Clamp said:
Sorry to be a pain. Can you do me a favour? Just ****off from this thread for 24 hours and let the grown ups talk about the matter in hand without your endless bullshite. By all means come back tomorrow but just 24 hours respite from your arsewittery would be a real treat. Just give us a bit of grown up time, yeah?

Feeling queasy are we ''Mr Recession adapt and flourish'', I sense that the wind has been taken out of your sail, suck it up buttercup :lolol:

The Clamp · Mar 3, 2018

BigGully said:
Feeling queasy are we ''Mr Recession adapt and flourish'', I sense that the wind has been taken out of your sail, suck it up buttercup

Didn't think so. Oh well.

WATFORD zero · Mar 3, 2018

BigGully said:
I am surprised that you are somehow claiming this as some personal success, I and other posters claimed you were scaremongering when you stated that the UK might experience 'delayed medicine' and the UK would become the 'Wild West with medicine'.

You and other posters claimed the UK after Brexit wouldn't be able to access cancer drugs nor other critical medicines, I and other posters countered that thisby saying this was never likely to happen.

The problem is that if you had just posted 1) MHRA continues to operate with the EMA...only possible with a very soft Brexit due to the complex pan-EU pharma laws. that might have been quite reasonable, but of course you didnt you added other likely disaster scenarios that always to me remained absurd.

Come back when the UK has delayed critical medicines and has become the 'Wild West' with medicine and you might then have a morsel of point.

I have to admit to a little begrudging admiration each time you manage to take NSC ****wittery to a new level :thumbsup:

BigGully · Mar 3, 2018

The Clamp said:
Didn't think so. Oh well.

go on give us one of your economic or political predictions, c'mon it's the weekend #Nostradamus :lolol:

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