[Politics] Brexit

nicko31 said:

With all those nasty foreign people stuck on the dock at Calais, ]

Click to expand...

the truth being those " nasty foreign people " are not stuck on a dock at Calais or actually stuck anywhere,they have entered France illegally by their own means and are currently in a place a few metres from where the local authorities have built a safe reception centre at great cost where they can safely claim asylum. They choose not to take this option and choose to be in the place they are now.

Hampster Gull said:

Just presenting the facts

Click to expand...

What facts?

You haven't presented anything but a blind panic EVERYTIME the chancellor comes out with one of his "could"quotes.

House prices "could" go down

They "could " go up as well .

There you go, another "could" for you to get over excited about.

If we leave they say House price may drop by 18% a lot of negative equity bad & good,interest rates would rise good for savers and Bad For for first time buyers also builder said house building would slow up and projects put on hold. Good and Bad .

bashlsdir said:

Wouldn't you like possiblity of cheaper housing?

Click to expand...

its a bizarre turn of events when the person supporting remain like Osborne tells the opposition that the very situation they are worried about like high house prices due to lack of supply and high demand will actually improve and not become worse if we vote Brexit.

There are now countless numbers of people who are thinking " house prices will drop 18% if we brexit?....really?.......i could really do with some of that"

Bladders said:

What facts?

You haven't presented anything but a blind panic EVERYTIME the chancellor comes out with one of his "could"quotes.

House prices "could" go down

They "could " go up as well .

There you go, another "could" for you to get over excited about.

Click to expand...

There is no depths to which the shysters will sink to scare the electorate into staying is there. This could happen that could happen. All ifs,but and maybe. It would be comical if it wasn't so important. Guess what the world will stop spinning if we leave the EU. Scare,scare and scare.

pastafarian said:

yes i know chap
you support Europe and think Corbyn is wrong on TTIP........or was it Corbyn is right on TTIP and Europe is wrong

Click to expand...

In principle I support TTIP but it should not run rough-shod over European standards which have been built up over years if not decades. Definitely needs more transparency as well.

As for Corbyn my patience is running out with him. Whilst I support his ideology and sentiment he is not getting the message across. He was a needed break from the Blair-ite era, and possible leaders like Burnham, but maybe it's time for Chucka or Dan Jarvis.

Just sums up the ********s in the EU who are getting twitchy because their cash cow might leave


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/l...-misery-junckers-warning-to-britain-7h2k90t8g

melias shoes said:

There is no depths to which the shysters will sink to scare the electorate into staying is there. This could happen that could happen. All ifs,but and maybe. It would be comical if it wasn't so important. Guess what the world will stop spinning if we leave the EU. Scare,scare and scare.

Click to expand...

Remain message is

could (insert doom scenario here)

could (insert doom scenario here)

could (insert doom scenario here)

could (insert doom scenario here)

could (insert doom scenario here)

blah blah economic opinion equals fact

sir albion said:

Just sums up the ********s in the EU who are getting twitchy because their cash cow might leave


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/l...-misery-junckers-warning-to-britain-7h2k90t8g

Click to expand...

So nice to know who your real friends are.

Tells you everything about what the EU really thinks of us.

sir albion said:

Just sums up the ********s in the EU who are getting twitchy because their cash cow might leave


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/l...-misery-junckers-warning-to-britain-7h2k90t8g

Click to expand...

After all said and done that's all we are to them. A cash cow to milk.

Herr Tubthumper said:

In principle I support TTIP but it should not run rough-shod over European standards which have been built up over years if not decades. Definitely needs more transparency as well.

As for Corbyn my patience is running out with him. Whilst I support his ideology and sentiment he is not getting the message across. He was a needed break from the Blair-ite era, and possible leaders like Burnham, but maybe it's time for Chucka or Dan Jarvis.

Click to expand...

well fork me
i never thought i would hear you say you think he has turned out to be a bad choice after all.

i tip my hat to you in respect for admitting that on NSC

Herr Tubthumper said:

In principle I support TTIP but it should not run rough-shod over European standards which have been built up over years if not decades. Definitely needs more transparency as well.

As for Corbyn my patience is running out with him. Whilst I support his ideology and sentiment he is not getting the message across. He was a needed break from the Blair-ite era, and possible leaders like Burnham, but maybe it's time for Chucka or Dan Jarvis.

Click to expand...

My patience with Cameron and Osbourne has run out too. The way they've conducted this remain campaign is disgusting with the BS they keep coming out with.

Bladders said:

So nice to know who your real friends are.

Tells you everything about what the EU really thinks of us.

Click to expand...

Exactly....We are nothing but a cash cow as its easy money to them.
We will never get on with much of Europe and they thoroughly enjoy milking and abusing us and if we stay then it will be looked backed with so much regret by the plonkers that vote"IN" that I'm 100% sure of.
All this crap about recessions etc etc is laughabl as we've had 3 recession's at least since we've been in the EU and what did the EU do about that?sweet FA as it has no powers to stop recessions or prevent them.

The whole of Europe is bordering on calapse anyway with so so many issues and most of them are the poorer classes naturally....what have they done in Greece,Spain and Portugal etc to improve things...NOTHING.

Pointless self greed organisation that doesn't actually give a flying fack about the working classes of Europe.
In this country you have massive problems that never get mentioned regarding the 10's of thousands of repossessions every year of homes and 1000's of families stuck in one room because of housing shortages.....it's a depressing state and the general census is that most people are really struggling.This country used to be great and full of people who were happy and bubbly,Christ how things have changed.

Time to get back to basics and to control our own destiny

melias shoes said:

My patience with Cameron and Osbourne has run out too. The way they've conducted this remain campaign is disgusting with the BS they keep coming out with.

Click to expand...

Me too,well wearing very thin........i will never ever vote Labour tho..

GoldWithFalmer said:

Me too,well wearing very thin........i will never ever vote Labour tho..

Click to expand...

What a choice we now have

The shyster Cameron or the clown Corbyn

pastafarian said:

Remain message is

could (insert doom scenario here)

could (insert doom scenario here)

could (insert doom scenario here)

could (insert doom scenario here)

could (insert doom scenario here)

blah blah economic opinion equals fact

Click to expand...

In fairness there is no other way to talk about things that may happen in the future. I don't know what you expect people do to apart from gather all available data to make informed predictions. These predictions from any respectable body show that: the economy will shrink, price will rise, and investment will slow.

I don't know what would satisfy you, perhaps we can get Dr Who to jump in the Tardis and tell us the situation in 2017, 2025 and 2030, both if we leave and remain. Without that option all we have is reams of expert analysis that point in the same direction and predict negative outcomes. Predictions is what the Bank of England is basically for, if you don't heed their warning that Brexit is a serious body-blow to the economy in the short and long-term, and could impact our basic ability to service our massive debt I guess nothing will convince.

Bladders said:

What a choice we now have

The shyster Cameron or the clown Corbyn

Click to expand...

Borris the man who seemed like he could hardly speak once upon a time,he is our leader..

JC Footy Genius said:

Show me one EU treaty that hasn't reinforced ever closer union ... Failed to answer the question, Answer there isn't one.

Or how we can limit EU immigration .. Failed to answer the question, Answer we can't.

Or how we can or have reform/ed the EU in a direction more to our liking... Failed to answer the question Answer it hasn't happened so why would this change.

Click to expand...

Let me answer these questions.

EU treaties are designed to ensure closer cooperation across member states. That is there point. There is no point in having a treaty that is designed to create disharmony. An example would be the Treaty of Rome which included proposed legislation on equality at work and working conditions across Europe.

On immigration, we are not part of Schegen and so can check every passport of any EU national wishing to enter the UK. This way we can prevent those with criminal records entering the UK or we can monitor them whilst they are here. We have one truly open border and that is with Ireland. Ireland is also not a member of the Schengen area. Now, is immigration a bad thing. In all likelihood no. Studies have shown time and again that the net contribution of immigrants to this country far outweighs the costs. Immigrants are required for two reasons: to shore up the critical skills shortage gap, and to fuel our economy. At present, we simply do not have enough native Brits to fill all the roles that exist in the UK (for example, we will need 70,000 nurses to deal with the ageing native population, and those skills are not available amongst the population as it stands - this is just one industry.)

The argument then goes that we should stop immigration and hand all jobs to the native population. This is a short-termist view. As I have said, the ONS statistics show a surplus of jobs to those out of work. The issue is that many of these jobs are low-paid and low-skilled. It is not in the long-term interests of UK plc to direct its combined workforce into filling low-pains and low-skilled work. This is not going to boost the GDP of the country, it will suppress. If we suppress our GDP, then we have less money to spend on the infrastructure of the country - less money to spend on schools, hospitals and vital public services. As I have mentioned, we are an ageing population, so we have to find the growth to cater for our needs.

We therefore must invest in hi-tech industries; in pharmaceutical research; in finch (financial technology); in mechanical engineering; in design. All of these industries are less likely to be replaced through artificial intelligence or automation as they require human beings. They are high value industries we can export. We will not be able to do this unless we embrace immigration and welcome those that can both help us develop these industries and, crucially, fill other roles right through the economy. This is the macro-economic picture we face.

So, do we want to control immigration? Yes, we want to keep the bad apples out - and we can do that - but much wider than that, no, we need immigration.

Now, to your last question, how can we reform the EU to our liking. The EU by its very nature is a partnership. It is not a partnership of equals, but it is a partnership. In the South East we have around 16 MEPs. This number is determined according to the size of population in the South East. So, we have more MEPs than say Wales for example. Similarly, the number of MEPs the UK has is predicated on the size of our population. Therefore we have more MEPs than Austria, but less than Germany. All these MEPs are responsible for shaping legislation inside the EU. By working together, they are able to fashion laws that are in the interests of all Europeans. That's a tall ask, as there is always going to be someone who feels hard done by. They also influence the Commission. Now the Commission desperately needs reforming. It is wasting taxpayers money and can be far more efficient. However, it is responsible for negotiating on matters like TTIP and therefore acts as a civil service in negotiating deals for EU member states. All EU members can influence appointments within the Commission, but the more involved a nation is, the more influence it can have. We have seen that our attitude to Europe has not been that positive over the past 40 years, so we really should not be surprised that the more proactive and willing participants are probably more influential.

European Commissioners can, as well as MEPs, draft legislation and laws. There is one Commissioner for each EU member state. As this is a partnership, that seems fair at this point. The more populous the more MEPs, but each member has one Commissioner. One could argue that here there is room for some reform. Should more populous nations have more than one Commissioner, but looking back down the system, MEPs should and are drafting the lion's share of legislation and here there is proportionality. Laws are ratified by EU member states i.e. Dave, Angela etc.

So, can we reform the EU to our liking? No, but we can reform the EU to the benefit of all Europeans and by default the benefit of the UK.

As I have said many times, this is not a polar debate i.e. all good/all bad. There are many things that need to change, but the UK will not prosper outside of the EU. We need to work with all Europeans; we need to learn to turn immigration to our advantage; we need to celebrate the fact that people want to come and work here, not because of 'easy money', but because the country is admired, it rewards work, it is tolerant and fair. And we ourselves need to do two things - decide what role we want in Europe and play an active part (don't return a UKIP MEP that by very definition just wants to smash things up and slow things down), and secondly, hold our own MPs at Westminster to account. Don't let them lie to us that it is the EU that is stopping them from passing policies that are in the interests of the UK. The Living Wage is controlled by UK MPs, the NHS by UK MPs, Schools by UK MPs, Trident by by UK MPs, zero contract hours by UK MPs, franchises for train operating companies by UK MPs, HS2 by UK MPs, HMRC and corporate tax dodgers by UK MPs.

I hope I have addressed some of the issues you [MENTION=277]looney[/MENTION] [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] and others raise. I understand where concerns come from, I do. I think many are emotive and not real, and I think there is scaremongering on both sides, but on balance, I believe we must remain.

So what do the Remainers feel about you beloved leader Junkers threats against our country?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Bladders said:

What a choice we now have

The shyster Cameron or the clown Corbyn

Click to expand...

It'll be Osborne. Corbyn won't win and will then be replaced. Labour face another term out at least - unless there is a Tory meltdown.