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G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
big nuts said:
I'm terrible at pacing long runs. I just can't maintain discipline to run to plan. I've run some cracking long training runs where I've pushed myself to the limit but made the distance. But quite often fell short of the distance target which defeats the purpose of a long run.

I've found running with someone a bit slower is the key to pacing longer runs.
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I too have to confess to being a shocker at this. I've always really disliked longer runs (= for me anything over 1 hour) and I'm sure it's something to do with trying to run them too fast. This could be down to ego and/or total incompetence.
 




G

Greg Bobkin

Silver Seagull
May 22, 2012
14,847
Simgull said:
22:39 at Hove Park - another 14 seconds back towards full fitness and felt pretty good - certainly better than Wednesdays effort.
That's on the back of Kraftwerk in London Thursday, a boozy lunch on Friday and Thurston Moore plus beers last night.

Quick catch up With [MENTION=13055]Ninja Elephant[/MENTION] and [MENTION=3975]benElton'sBrother afterwards. [MENTION=24635]Greg Bobkin[/MENTION] - it seems you have been out faithfulled by @BEB as far as Hove Park is concerned!
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It's all going wrong - six seconds outside my pacing time yesterday too :ffsparr:

Lovely run today - riverbank, Truleigh and back down through Southwick.
 


dazzer6666

dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
52,400
Burgess Hill
poidy said:
Thoroughly enjoyable 7.5 miles this morning. It's amazing how much more enjoyable running is when you stop trying to achieve a certain pace. For years I've ran too quickly for my ability. Might be good for your fitness levels but completely unsustainable over longer distances and too painful for it to be enjoyable. A steady 8 minute mile pace today and it was a breeze and the most I've enjoyed it for a long time.

Still early doors so it is taking some discipline maintaining my 'conversational' pace without turning on the after burners. But if I keep it up I feel the world is my oyster in terms of distance, with a marathon more than achievable.

Has anyone else had the same battles with pacing?


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Absolutely. Very difficult - I have a kind of latent running pace that I tend to drift to almost regardless of distance so have to really concentrate. It's really important from a training perspective to get it right though. For example most marathon training long runs should be at least a minute a mile slower than intended marathon pace.

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M

m20gull

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2004
3,420
Land of the Chavs
dazzer6666 said:
Absolutely. Very difficult - I have a kind of latent running pace that I tend to drift to almost regardless of distance so have to really concentrate. It's really important from a training perspective to get it right though. For example most marathon training long runs should be at least a minute a mile slower than intended marathon pace.

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Click to expand...

Having just moved to marathon distance I have struggled with that last point but I think I am there now.
 


dazzer6666

dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
52,400
Burgess Hill
m20gull said:
Having just moved to marathon distance I have struggled with that last point but I think I am there now.
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I still haven't.....get regular bollockings from my coach chap for doing slow runs too fast, and still manage to cock up most of my races by starting too fast. If I was a novice it'd be more acceptable but I've done 50 odd marathons. I think I'm stupid.

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B

big nuts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2011
4,866
Hove
dazzer6666 said:
Absolutely. Very difficult - I have a kind of latent running pace that I tend to drift to almost regardless of distance so have to really concentrate. It's really important from a training perspective to get it right though. For example most marathon training long runs should be at least a minute a mile slower than intended marathon pace.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I reversed the practice run strategy by training quicker than marathon pace. My thinking being it will feel very comfortable on race day and I won't fatigue in the last 10k.

I've run three very good marathons running this way but would like to compare this against the more traditional mindset of training slower.

It also makes long runs far more enjoyable!
 


Ninja Elephant

Ninja Elephant

Doctor Elephant
Feb 16, 2009
18,855
I still find pacing yourself to be the hardest thing to do, my best ever race was the Worthing Half Marathon in February. I went into it with no expectations other than to run it, enjoy it and see how I get on. In the end, I ran quicker each mile for the first 8/9 and then leveled off quite nicely and finished with a strong half mile almost sprint. The whole thing felt smashing, and that was starting from the back of the field and only being passed twice in the whole course (once by a guy who'd stopped briefly for a quick tinkle before resuming his pace). Psychologically, I think starting from the back and overtaking so many in a controlled way worked well for me whereas I felt I ran the Brighton Half on a month later with far worse pacing, because I believed I could run a 1:30 which I wasn't really ready for as a target.
 


poidy

poidy

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2009
1,848
Ninja Elephant said:
I still find pacing yourself to be the hardest thing to do, my best ever race was the Worthing Half Marathon in February. I went into it with no expectations other than to run it, enjoy it and see how I get on. In the end, I ran quicker each mile for the first 8/9 and then leveled off quite nicely and finished with a strong half mile almost sprint. The whole thing felt smashing, and that was starting from the back of the field and only being passed twice in the whole course (once by a guy who'd stopped briefly for a quick tinkle before resuming his pace). Psychologically, I think starting from the back and overtaking so many in a controlled way worked well for me whereas I felt I ran the Brighton Half on a month later with far worse pacing, because I believed I could run a 1:30 which I wasn't really ready for as a target.
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I used to be obsessed with times and hitting 7:30 minute mile pace, which for me is too quick over longer distances. It's recently dawned on me that the rare occasions where I've experienced the runners high, is when I've approached a run in a controlled 8 minute mile manner.

Not only is this more enjoyable but I also have the 7:30 minute mile pace in my back pocket for the latter part of a run if I so desire.




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K

knocky1

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2010
12,965
The pacing and long slow runs debate is interesting to me.Since April I've been limited by Achilles issue to 11 runs 8 being Parkruns. Every week I had a sizeable decrease in time (bar Bevendean). Regardless of finish time each needed the same effort.
So a great return to 85% of my capability at 5k level with only 4 hours total running in 10 weeks. I put this down to the long recovery time between runs.
The problem is I could not run over 5k at anywhere near that pace and I have entered the Phoenix 10k as I could not resist a beer in the Brunswick afterwards with NSC's finest. Pacing will have to be 8:30 to 8:45 up to the turn and then dream of 7:30 pace for the last 5k. My lack of training will catch me out! Looking forward to the challenge though.

Hove Promenade parkrun 17/06/2017 22:52 68.37%
Worthing 10/06/2017 23:11 67.43%
Eastbourne parkrun 03/06/2017 23:26 66.71%
Bevendean Down parkrun 27/05/2017 26:12 59.67%
Peacehaven parkrun 20/05/2017 24:19 64.29%
Brighton & Hove parkrun 13/05/2017 27:02 57.83%
Brighton & Hove parkrun 06/05/2017 33:37 46.50%
Brighton & Hove parkrun 29/04/2017 37:13 42.01%
 


poidy

poidy

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2009
1,848
knocky1 said:
The pacing and long slow runs debate is interesting to me.Since April I've been limited by Achilles issue to 11 runs 8 being Parkruns. Every week I had a sizeable decrease in time (bar Bevendean). Regardless of finish time each needed the same effort.
So a great return to 85% of my capability at 5k level with only 4 hours total running in 10 weeks. I put this down to the long recovery time between runs.
The problem is I could not run over 5k at anywhere near that pace and I have entered the Phoenix 10k as I could not resist a beer in the Brunswick afterwards with NSC's finest. Pacing will have to be 8:30 to 8:45 up to the turn and then dream of 7:30 pace for the last 5k. My lack of training will catch me out! Looking forward to the challenge though.

Hove Promenade parkrun17/06/201722:5268.37%
Worthing 10/06/2017 23:11 67.43%
Eastbourne parkrun03/06/201723:2666.71%
Bevendean Down parkrun 27/05/201726:1259.67%
Peacehaven parkrun20/05/201724:1964.29%
Brighton & Hove parkrun13/05/201727:0257.83%
Brighton & Hove parkrun06/05/201733:3746.50%
Brighton & Hove parkrun29/04/201737:1342.01%
Click to expand...

If you can run 5K in 22:52, you should have plenty left in the lungs running the first half of a 10K at 8.30 minute miles.

It'll be your legs that let you down if you haven't run over 3 miles in a while.


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K

knocky1

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2010
12,965
poidy said:
If you can run 5K in 22:52, you should have plenty left in the lungs running the first half of a 10K at 8.30 minute miles.

It'll be your legs that let you down if you haven't run over 3 miles in a while.


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Click to expand...

A new debate for NSC. Interesting point. Personally I think heart not being able to maintain that pace from not having been trained at long slow distance. My legs have never let me down in a race up to half a marathon in 52 years and was happy with them for their first 5 years before that! My pacing must avoid that.

Anyway I'm Geared up to be the Guinea pig and today did a 4m with a nice upward pace graph https://www.strava.com/activities/1056378139
Will do 5.2 miles next week in similar fashion and then leave the 1 mile for the days target of 47-48.

Are you running the Phoenix? It's a good event.
 
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K

knocky1

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2010
12,965
Garry Nelson's teacher said:
I too have to confess to being a shocker at this. I've always really disliked longer runs (= for me anything over 1 hour) and I'm sure it's something to do with trying to run them too fast. This could be down to ego and/or total incompetence.
Click to expand...

Ninja Elephant said:
So Hove Promenade and Worthing are cancelled this weekend so I might have another stab at Peacehaven, at full pace. If I wake up in time! :thumbsup:
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Thanks for the warning. I was going to Hove Park but it's now going to be very busy. I'm considering Clair Park. Any car sharers?
 


G

Garry Nelson's teacher

Well-known member
May 11, 2015
5,257
Bloody Worthing!
knocky1 said:
Thanks for the warning. I was going to Hove Park but it's now going to be very busy. I'm considering Clair Park. Any car sharers?
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Probably (Bugger) Bognor for me. Be interested to hear your view on Clair. I thought it was really quite hard but I did an OK time. I'd rank it about the same as Peacehaven.

On the long slow distance (LSD) debate I claim absolutely no expertise at all but I remember when I started running in around 1985 I read someone who wrote that LSD just produces long slow runners and it's always stuck in my mind. Come to think of it, my times over longer distances are so poor that I should be disqualified from taking part in any such debate!
 




M

Mr Blobby

New member
Jul 14, 2003
2,632
In a cave
knocky1 said:
Stuart's enquiry would say a floating 30 sec variance for team B. You can squabble amongst yourselves ad finitum.

Interested on [MENTION=474]Mr Blobby[/MENTION] confirming leg 2 time. The Irish ringer is down for leg 1 in 12.30, which would be an amazing loan performance by the big lad.
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My watch said 13.10 so its about right as I didnt start it immediately! I think I was officially the weakest link. Do I win a prize? Perhaps I should have to carry the bags for the egos and super egos next year? I blame my time on the heat, the grass was too long, the heat, the dog ate my course map, have I mentioned the heat? - please choose one and hold the others for next year :)
 


M

Mr Blobby

New member
Jul 14, 2003
2,632
In a cave
Did the first Brighton & Hove GoDadGo 10k on Sunday. Paced a mate, which was new to me, he got a PB by 4 minutes.

http://www.godadrun.co.uk/

Hopefully a few more runners next year (was about 150 this year). Medals handed out by Mark Foster and Sally Gunnell.
19429688_10156179728242814_5478919176378159306_n.jpg
 


K

knocky1

Well-known member
Jan 20, 2010
12,965
Mr Blobby said:
My watch said 13.10 so its about right as I didnt start it immediately! I think I was officially the weakest link. Do I win a prize? Perhaps I should have to carry the bags for the egos and super egos next year? I blame my time on the heat, the grass was too long, the heat, the dog ate my course map, have I mentioned the heat? - please choose one and hold the others for next year :)
Click to expand...

I'm resigning as head of selection. The blames lies fair and square on not letting you have the first run. Probably the fastest Eamons ever run, despite the heat, the grass and the bloody dog.......
 


G

Greg Bobkin

Silver Seagull
May 22, 2012
14,847
Don't be fooled by the grey skies – it's muggy out there. Came back from 10k of mixed pace miles this morning absolutely drenched (and no, it wasn't raining!).

The big one today though (weather permitting) – Sports day :lol:
 






K

Keeping The Dream Alive.

Naming Rights
May 28, 2008
3,059
WSU
*Novice alert*

Been for a couple of runs for the first time in a (very) long time recently. I haven't explicitly timed them, but have run for around 20 minutes at a steady pace just to ease myself in as it were.

I think I'd like to work towards doing 5ks, and would like to set myself targets but I'm not really sure what I should be looking at. Could anyone kindly suggest some reasonable targets? I'm in mid 20s, play a bit of football and cricket, have an average build and I'd be keen to do a couple of practice runs a week. A quick google suggests it's pretty subjective so any help is appreciated!

PS - quite fascinating to read the last few pages to see what you guys have got going on, seems a pretty sound NSC sub-community.
 


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