[Football] Discuss our current strategy for defending corners....

RandyWanger · Jan 16, 2018

Surf's Up said:
If that's correct it is a pretty damming indictment of his training regime. We were always going to struggle this year playing at the margins, so you'd have thought the coaching staff would've wanted to maximise our effectiveness wherever they could and set pieces is a good place to start.

This is the quote:

"We have done more work on defending set plays in the last couple of weeks than we've done all season and we've conceded again. That's a concern, particularly so early in the game. It very much puts them in the ascendency and us on the back foot."

I heard it on BBC Radio Sussex but it's here in print too: http://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/158...as_Albion_leave_themselves_in_a_corner_again/

Papa Lazarou · Jan 16, 2018

RandyWanger said:
This is the quote:

"We have done more work on defending set plays in the last couple of weeks than we've done all season and we've conceded again. That's a concern, particularly so early in the game. It very much puts them in the ascendency and us on the back foot."

I heard it on BBC Radio Sussex but it's here in print too: http://www.theargus.co.uk/sport/158...as_Albion_leave_themselves_in_a_corner_again/

Do you get the feeling we're over thinking this, and confusing everyone?

raymondo · Jan 16, 2018

Blind Pugh said:
Ray - we are not yet running the game like NFL.

...but you get my drift

. Bruno, bless him for all his outstanding qualities, is part of the problem at corners. If the best example he can set his team is to hold/block an attacker and ignore/lose the flight of the ball... then there's no hope!

Machiavelli · Jan 16, 2018

brightonrock said:
There are two reasons we don't leave a player(s) up when defending corners.

1) Statistically, the second phase is the most dangerous from set pieces. While we're leaking goals from set pieces like a sieve at present, across all levels of football the number of goals actuallyl scored from corners is really low - we all get excited when we win one, but in reality it represents a pretty poor opportunity. Having an extra body in the box if/when a second cross comes into the box following a partial clearance, gives us a slight numerical advantage. Every team, when a ball is cleared at least partially away, will push up to try to catch a forward offside, but in doing so, they lose defensive shape and it can cause players to lose their man. In the second or two between pushing up and the ball coming back into the box, it's impossible to take stock and re-allocate a man each to mark.

2) The biggest danger from any set piece is a runner from deep - a forward with a run on a defender with a standing jump, has an advantage for spring and power on the header. By crowding the box with as many bodies as possible, it makes runners from deep less able (in theory) to get that run on a static defender through sheer traffic.

Hughton has answered this before at Fans Forums - and it's not something he's going to change. It's also a moot point that having a player up would have stopped WBA or Huddersfield from getting their goals against us in recent weeks. It was poor marking that caused those goals - not the lack of a player forward, because we didn't win the first ball to be able to make that argument. In both games we lost a runner at the front post, who flicked on to the far post where another runner was unmarked to score. At WBA it was Dunk who stopped and was caught ball watching as his man (Evans) used a blocker and ran around the back unchallenged. For the second, they dummied the near post flick by making the run but delivered to the far post, where Bong didn't get tight to Dawson, who got the run on him and beat him in the air. Leaving Izquierdo or A. N. Other up would not have stopped that.

I was at West Brom and was as frustrated as anybody else by the shambles from corners - we were lucky not to concede from another two when free headers were glanced wide or over. However, it's not as simplistic as "just leave players up" because of the two points above. If we were conceding a lot from never fully vacating the box and a half-cleared set piece coming back in at us, there'd be a valid point to discuss. But right now we aren't successfully tracking runners or winning the initial ball, so whether or not we take a defender out and put him on the half way line is utterly irrelevant. Until we get the basics right and track our men and win the first ball, we could have twenty players on the pitch and we'd still concede from corners.

I suspect the answer can't be too far away from what ^ says.

The_Viper · Jan 16, 2018

Pavilionaire said:
It would help if the majority of our defenders kept their eye on the ball while it is in flight.

Haven't read the rest of the feedback in this thread but this is what I agree with, on NBC for the last few weeks every commentary team have highlighted the fact that almost all of our players in the box as the ball comes in aren't even looking at the ball. It's piss poor, also may be a reason why we never score from them too.

symyjym · Jan 16, 2018

All of the players should take their eyes off the ball and pick an opposition player to wrestle with. Oh

BensGrandad · Jan 16, 2018

As I posted on another thread on this subject put 1 winger out wide left near the half way and the other winger out wide on the right . They would probably leave 2 players on each of our wingers but possibly 1 on each and 1 spare in the middle plus the keeper means a maximum of 7 in our box to attack the ball. We would have 9 including Ryan so 1 man marking each attacker and 1 free man to pick up the runners and or space. It would also mean less confusion in he box thus giving Ryan greater sight if the ball. As soon as the direction of the ball is determined the least active 2 players nearest the post take up a position there.

As reported on the TV stream of WBA game we have no chance of winning the ball because none of our defenders watch the ball they are all more concerned with watching moving players.

This would also allow us an out with a hoofed clearance or from the keepers hands.

BensGrandad · Jan 16, 2018

Just a thought to give the defenders more practice how about getting Bob Booker to put on his tracksuit and attack crosses with Murray and Hemed he was very good in the air and even now wouldnt have to run around so should be able to cope for an hour and give Dunk and Duffy etc some competition. Must be worth a try as we are headed for The Championship as it stands.

LowKarate · Jan 16, 2018

We use the CRUDE method of defending corners.

Chaotic
Rubbish
Unaware
Distracted
Effortless

GT49er · Jan 16, 2018

Greavsey said:
As much as I like Ryan for his excellent shot stopping and ability to come off best with one on ones i think he's unfortunately the cause of our instability at corners.

The defenders don't have confidence that he can come through a sea of players to claim the cross.

A bloody chieftain tank couldn't get through that sea of players! If there was room for him to come, perhaps he would.

maltaseagull · Jan 16, 2018

Interesting comment from the commentary on Saturday was Brighton defenders aren't looking at the ball at corners!

kalinski · Jan 16, 2018

Statistically speaking, this season aside, you are more likely to concede a goal when you have an attacking corner!

Anyway, I would.

Leave a quick player up front. Full back on front post. Other full back on edge of six yard box in front of the one on the post to stop the flick on. Dunk, Duffy, Propper, Stephens marking, Gross on edge of the box with other winger either there or marking the player who has been put on the keeper. I would probably play Krul

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adub68 · Jan 16, 2018

Giraffe said:
I'm not sure whether it is a recent thing or what we have been doing all season but it seems that at West Brom Duffy was used as a free man to just go and head the ball. I.e. he was not marking a man. If we have been doing this all season then we should stop because our best headerer should be on their best headerer? If it's new then maybe it needs working on some more.

A lot though comes down to individual discipline. Bong should not have lost his man for the second for example.

Noticed this too on Saturday. Duffy was positioned in the middle of the six yrd box zone and was not marking anyone. This worked once in the entire game when the ball dropped into that space (think it was on the corner after they scored their first) and where he stood still and he had to stoop to allow it to hit him. On every other corner (they had many) the ball either went to the front post for a flick on as per the first goal) or to the back post zone (as per the second WBA goal) and therefore Duffy was not part of the equation. Perplexing to have allegedly your best header of the ball not challenging their players but perhaps not as perplexing as having one of the few people in the team who can break with a ball (and the smallest man on the team) on the back post when Bruno (who seems to have no idea how to challenge for a ball in the air) is busy wrestling someone with his back to the ball rather than perhaps defending the goal line

ewe2 · Jan 16, 2018

Well, Dunk and Duffy can forget the ultimate transfer for themselves if they don't sort it out........Their value can only be going one way !

GT49er · Jan 16, 2018

Papa Lazarou said:
From another thread.... worth debating in isolation

How would you setup to defend corners, as something's not working?

Much as I agree wit the sentiments of the OP, this has to go down as the most pointless (football related) thread ever. Nothing is ever going to change. The only way it would change would be if we sacked Hughton and got someone else in - and I'm not in a million years advocating that - and I doubt if anybody else on NSC, unless Palarse or a troll - or both - is wanting it either..

blue-shifted · Jan 16, 2018

Assuming our usual line up

Bruno and Propper on the posts

Murray as the first man to head away anything short. Stationed near the front corner of the 6 yard box. No marking responsibility.

Knockeart near the corner guarding that they don’t take it short

Izquierdo on the near corner of the D looking to stop a volley, pick up a second ball and initiate a counter. He should also be alert to help Knocky if there’s a short.

Dunk, Duffy, Bong, Gross, Stephens marking up in the centre. In that order, so Dunk marks their best header, Duffy their 2nd best etc

Key messages.

1) Losing sight of the ball is better than losing your marker

2) Head in the air and we’ll deal with the 2nd ball rather than concede another corner

3) Ryan stays on his line

Not Andy Naylor · Jan 16, 2018

It hurts to say this (repeat it, actually), but anyone who has played organised football at any level knows that two keys to winning defensive headers are determination and bravery. Heading a ball under challenge is potentially dangerous and painful. You risk a clash of heads and consequently a broken nose, losing a tooth or two and occasionally coming to on the ground with blood pouring out of your scalp and the prospect of a quite few stitches (what an enjoyable Sunday morning that was). But if you want to clear the ball and you want your team to win the game, you do what it takes.

If your immediate opponent is taller than you or has a run on you, you can still make it difficult for him to get a clean header, or you can block his run.

I won't name names (it's on YouTube anyway), but the Brighton player with Jay Rodriguez for West Brom's first goal didn't compete for the ball. If he's not prepared to do so (especially bearing in mind all the money Tony Bloom is no doubt paying him), why is he in the penalty area?

portslade seagull · Jan 16, 2018

Grapple the nearest man to you. Don't watch the ball and definitely don't jump ( might cause an injury )

Weststander · Jan 16, 2018

The strategy is to deliberately give away a stack of freekicks and corners, to lull the opposition into pushing loads of players up, so that we can break at lightning speed and destroy them on the counter.

It can work, I've seen Liverpool do it countless times this season.

Jimmy Grimble · Jan 16, 2018

I predict within the next few games we will give away a penalty while defending a corner due to desperate marking/run tracking.

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[Football] Discuss our current strategy for defending corners....

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