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[Politics] Tony Blair doubts Labour can be 'taken back by moderates'



pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Pavilionaire said:
Er no, I want a party that will commit to a Second Referendum on the Deal we get with the EU, then abide by the result.

I have no problem with a Referendum on something that is known. I can forgive the £350mill for the NHS, they need us more than we need them, etc because that contra's off against Osborne's Emergency Budget scare-mongering rubbish, but what was - and still is - unforgiveable is the lie that there was ever the prospect of a "Deal". Anyone who knows about the EU's 4 Freedoms know they wouldn't compromise those to suit us, ergo No Deal. Had Leave been honest about this Remain would have won by a small margin.
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Are you not being a bit contradictory here?
On the one hand you are saying it was an unforgivable lie to even suggest there was the prospect of a deal being achieved with the EU as its not possible.
And on the other you are saying there will be a deal with the EU and you want a second referendum on it.
 




Winker

Winker

CUM ON FEEL THE NOIZE
Jul 14, 2008
2,392
The Astral Planes, man...
attila said:
Should be on trial at The Hague, no credibility to talk about anything, a total disgrace that the media still give him airtime. Responsible for an illegal war, the facilitation of ISIS, a nauseating globalisation culture which decimated our communities and paved the way for a ' *Labour*' government to relax rules which allowed the Archering of our financial system by profiteering scum in 2008 - exactly the same mindset that nearly destroyed our club. Utter filth. Nothing to do with socialism, nothing to do with the Labour Party of today. End of. He and his ideas are finished.
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Nicely put - I take it he didn't ask you to write the forward of his biography!
 


Ernest

Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,739
LOONEY BIN
attila said:
Should be on trial at The Hague, no credibility to talk about anything, a total disgrace that the media still give him airtime. Responsible for an illegal war, the facilitation of ISIS, a nauseating globalisation culture which decimated our communities and paved the way for a ' *Labour*' government to relax rules which allowed the Archering of our financial system by profiteering scum in 2008 - exactly the same mindset that nearly destroyed our club. Utter filth. Nothing to do with socialism, nothing to do with the Labour Party of today. End of. He and his ideas are finished.
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Not only the person but his ideas are dead too but he won't admit it
 


deletebeepbeepbeep

deletebeepbeepbeep

Well-known member
May 12, 2009
20,957
Pavilionaire said:
So what choices do the electorate have?

1. A hard-left Labour Party led by 70-year old anti-Semite Jeremy Corbyn (already one GE defeat under his belt)..
2. A hard right Brexit-supporting Tory Party led by a weak robot with no sense of rhythm.
3. A centrist party with a handful of MPs, a 75-year old leader, a whole ton of baggage and a Pro-EU agenda that has no hope of appealing to Leavers.

On that basis I'd say a broad consensus middle ground party supporting a Second Referendum on the terms of the EU Deal stands to get a sizeable vote, but only if they get big hitters from both Left, Right and (preferably) outside of politics to give it that "non-establishment" sprinkle that worked so well for Trump and Macron.

The likes of Soubry, Grieve, Umunna, David Miliband should go for it. I'd also like to see Gina Miller in the mix.

That would be a party I could get enthusiastic about.
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Hm two conservative members who failed to stand up to their convictions over Brexit in any meaningful way, two Labour weathercocks who failed failed or dropped out of leadership bids and a City lawyer.

Sound like ideal leadership material to me for a centrist party led by a bunch of bankers. Just what the country needs.
 








Not Andy Naylor

Not Andy Naylor

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2007
8,798
Seven Dials
attila said:
Should be on trial at The Hague, no credibility to talk about anything, a total disgrace that the media still give him airtime. Responsible for an illegal war, the facilitation of ISIS, a nauseating globalisation culture which decimated our communities and paved the way for a ' *Labour*' government to relax rules which allowed the Archering of our financial system by profiteering scum in 2008 - exactly the same mindset that nearly destroyed our club. Utter filth. Nothing to do with socialism, nothing to do with the Labour Party of today. End of. He and his ideas are finished.
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Mostly right, but I'd say partly responsible for the illegal war by giving the appalling George W Bush support that he didn't really need. His fawning over Dubya was nauseating.. The tragedy is that his landslide victory in 1997 was a mandate for a proper socialist programme, but all we got was Conservatism Lite.
 


clapham_gull

clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,310
attila said:
Should be on trial at The Hague, no credibility to talk about anything, a total disgrace that the media still give him airtime. Responsible for an illegal war, the facilitation of ISIS, a nauseating globalisation culture which decimated our communities and paved the way for a ' *Labour*' government to relax rules which allowed the Archering of our financial system by profiteering scum in 2008 - exactly the same mindset that nearly destroyed our club. Utter filth. Nothing to do with socialism, nothing to do with the Labour Party of today. End of. He and his ideas are finished.
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Yes, but I think that's a bit different from the quite valid observation that left and right have become quite stretched. Irrespective of your political views neither Corbyn/Momentum or Boris/Rees Mogg are going to placate the majority of the people in this country.

That's different from winning a general election, which either feasibly could. You'll just end up with a country split down the middle Brexit style.

The ideas of the right of the Tory party and the left of the Labour party as a mechanism to broadly united the majority of the electorate are finished too.

Both belong to a different age. The left hate the rich and the rich can't understand how the poor can't be as rich as they are.

It's fascinating times. Corbyn, the pied piper of the young electorate disagrees with the one thing they generally want - membership of the EU. A morally driven campaigner but not a leader end of. He can't even control the membership who put him in power.
 
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Javeaseagull

Javeaseagull

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2014
2,499
I have waited most of my life for a socialist government. Harold Wilson said he was leading a socialist government with a Tzarist cabinet. It was much later that I realised what he meant.
I am a member of the Labour Party and have never felt more confident of a breakthrough. You only have to look at the vilification of JC to see that the Press are running scared.
After decades of terrible abuse in the press Tony Benn was hailed as some sort of hero once he had retired and was no longer a threat. I feel a sense of de jevu
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,745
Napper said:
Blair probably the best prime minister we've ever had in terms of what was achieved .

Gets hammered for the war though and if he ever came back a lot of people and the press would never let that go.
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Yeah, if only we could all bury the hatchet along side the 250,000 dead Iraqis, not to mention the hundreds of thousands maimed and millions rendered homeless.

Poor old Tone.
 


C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,745
pastafarian said:
Are you not being a bit contradictory here?
On the one hand you are saying it was an unforgivable lie to even suggest there was the prospect of a deal being achieved with the EU as its not possible.
And on the other you are saying there will be a deal with the EU and you want a second referendum on it.
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We need more like this multi millionaire Labour moderate........

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...r-Party-Jeremy-Corbyn-Theresa-May-Lord-Adonis

Nothing extreme about him whatsoever........
 






drew

drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,052
Burgess Hill
In my view there is so much garbage written by the left about their prospects at a general election. Corbyn will never win a GE. He is a puppet of the far left/momentum. People bang on about how big the labour party membership is but that is irrelevant in a GE. Whether you like Blair or not, he is the only Labour leader to win an election since Wilson, ie over 40 years. He did it as he knew to put your principles into practice you have to be in power and to be in power you have to appeal to a broader section of the electorate than the far left. So they compromised and succeeded in winning 3 elections.

As for a new central party, Blair couldn't lead it because of his history but the fall out from Brexit could give it a wider appeal than the old SDP which, in 1983 polled just under 650,000 fewer votes than Labour.

Personally, hope it happens as at the moment I'd never vote for a Corbyn/Momentum led Labour movement.
 


GT49er

GT49er

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2009
46,717
Gloucester
clapham_gull said:
Corbyn, the pied piper of the young electorate disagrees with the one thing they generally want - membership of the EU. A morally driven campaigner but not a leader end of. He can't even control the membership who put him in power.
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Don't often agree with you - indeed I don't often agree with most of the posts on political threads on NSC - but that is spot on. Ironic, but true.
 




Not Andy Naylor

Not Andy Naylor

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2007
8,798
Seven Dials
Javeaseagull said:
I have waited most of my life for a socialist government. Harold Wilson said he was leading a socialist government with a Tzarist cabinet. It was much later that I realised what he meant.
I am a member of the Labour Party and have never felt more confident of a breakthrough. You only have to look at the vilification of JC to see that the Press are running scared.
After decades of terrible abuse in the press Tony Benn was hailed as some sort of hero once he had retired and was no longer a threat. I feel a sense of de jevu
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Unfortunately I think Corbyn is not the man to make this happen. He doesn't appear to have the instincts or the intelligence. He doesn't get the effects on public perception that the anti-semitism thing and the votes of no confidence in sitting MPs will have. And he's out of step, as has been said, with all the new young members of the Labour party who want to stay in Europe. He's allowing Momentum to set the agenda when, as a leader, he should be leading.

The result will be another election failure and another Tory government, which will compound the disaster of Brexit.
 


Ernest

Ernest

Stupid IDIOT
Nov 8, 2003
42,739
LOONEY BIN
Not Andy Naylor said:
Unfortunately I think Corbyn is not the man to make this happen. He doesn't appear to have the instincts or the intelligence. He doesn't get the effects on public perception that the anti-semitism thing and the votes of no confidence in sitting MPs will have. And he's out of step, as has been said, with all the new young members of the Labour party who want to stay in Europe. He's allowing Momentum to set the agenda when, as a leader, he should be leading.

The result will be another election failure and another Tory government, which will compound the disaster of Brexit.
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Another load of rubbish , you haven't a clue.
 




T

The Gem

New member
Oct 17, 2008
1,267
Biscuit said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45438855

Speaking on Nick Robinson's Political Thinking Podcast, Mr Blair said: "I don't think the British people will tolerate a situation where, for example, the choice at the next election is Boris Johnson versus Jeremy Corbyn.

"I don't know what will happen and I don't know how it will happen.

"But I just don't believe people will find that, in the country as a whole, an acceptable choice. Something will fill that vacuum."

He said there was a large constituency of voters who backed "socially liberal, progressive" politics but also believed in "a strong private enterprise sector alongside a state that is capable of helping people".

Mr Blair's name has been linked with the formation of a new "centre ground" party, although he has never publicly backed the idea.

----

Whatever you think of the man personally, Blair was a proper leader and the Labour Party were electable under his tenure. Corbyn, rightly or wrongly, is seen as far too left. This perception allows the Tories to move further right without a decent opposition keeping them in check. So, will Labour still be the second largest party come the next GE? Or is the country calling out for a new 'centre ground' party, as Blair suggests? Should the Lib Dems not be capitalising to 'fill that vacuum'?

I await a friendly, civil and thought provoking debate where both sides discuss the issues at hand in a grown-up fashion. :lolol:
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Does anyone care any more what this lying murdering tw4t says, Blood on his hands and I wish him dead rather than our 100's of soldiers who fought in a fabricated war that was instigated by Blair with his head up the Americans arse.

Drop dead Blair.
 






Blue3

Blue3

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2014
5,570
Lancing
TSB said:
Centrists such as myself are completely unrepresented in Westminster.



Centralism and Capitalism as we know it have not provided the answer for well over half of the worlds population, We are living through a period of immense political and social change and new ideas are needed to bring that change
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