Official Running Thread

Ninja Elephant · Oct 26, 2017

dazzer6666 said:
I’m in nowhere near the same league as our resident racing snakes, but I can pass on a few snippets from my coach.

-long distance (by which I mean even up to the sillier end) should always include speedwork. When I’m training for 100m events my plan always has at least one quality interval session in it (theory being if you can run faster, running slower is easier)

-endurance training builds your aerobic capability, meaning you can ‘hang on’ longer in the shorter stuff

-plan should always be balanced, it’s just that the balance shifts when you’re aiming for a particular event (as [MENTION=13055]Ninja Elephant[/MENTION] says)

In short, they’re not mutually exclusive, just adapt the schedule a bit to suit your goal race - bear in mind pretty much all the events we are talking about are classified as ‘long distance’ by athletes !

I think this is spot on, you need the speed work because it helps when you're running slower than that speed. The idea is that you run above race speed over a shorter distance, but I can't seem to do that - I struggle to run race speed in training more often than not.

I would say balance is THE key, and to do other things as well as running. Swimming, cycling, the rowing machine and cross trainer machines in the gym have all been key as well.

The Complete Badger said:
Thanks, I can relate to what you say (apart from the numbers obviously, as mine are far slower!). I feel like I'm covering a lot of distance without much purpose. My two aims for 2018 are to run a marathon and to go sub-20 over 5km. My training at the moment isn't tailored to either and sits roughly in between the two in terms of distance and speed, so I need to make changes like you did. What does a typical weekly programme look like for you now you are focused entirely on speed?

I've attached the training plans that Rob put together for me, feel free to pile in. You need to do longer distance for the endurance, but speed work to increase your threshold to run at pace. It's been a remarkable training year for me, beforehand I really was just going out and running a few miles here and there. I enjoy running, and I enjoy the steady timed runs as much if not more than the sprinting sessions but there's a lot to be said for the 6 x 90 seconds sessions because they really are tough even though the whole thing is done fairly quickly.

dazzer6666 · Oct 26, 2017

The Complete Badger said:
Thanks [MENTION=13055]Ninja Elephant[/MENTION]. My initial thoughts are that a) there is lots of variety in your programme, b) I have never done any of those activities and c) you don't actually have to run that far, it really is all about quality over quantity. I am going to study the plan properly when I get home and incorporate some new bits in my training ASAP[emoji106]

Point c is a really important one.......too many people do too many 'junk miles'. Good for health and wellbeing but don't really improve performance once you reach a plateau. Got to keep pushing at the boundaries to get faster.

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Ninja Elephant · Oct 26, 2017

Sadly for me, I'm only able to get to week 6 this time for the 11th November so the final week will be sacrificed, and today is week 5. Which means back to the Marina slope for another 8 reps aiming for 45-50 seconds! It's a session that really adds outrageous value. It's the toughest session but a distance, and it's only a total distance of 160 metres!

Garry Nelson's teacher · Oct 26, 2017

The Complete Badger said:
It's interesting that you obviously have the knowledge/technique to train yourself to run long or run fast. For me, ever since I started running my only tactic has been to clock up more and more miles and the consequence of that has been that my 5km time has consistently come down. But what I'm doing is nonsense really as, to take it to an extreme, Usain Bolt obviously doesn't train for 100m by running a marathon. So my plan is only going to take me so far and then it will hamper progress.

WIth that in mind, when you've run the marathon, what sort of training would you do to get yourself back to a 20/21 minute 5km time?

Well you flatter me a bit by inferring that I know what I'm doing! Unlike many on the thread, I'm pretty random in my training, other than for the marathon where I've tried to develop a more structured approach and while I've not quite hated every minute, I've not really enjoyed many of them. I'm also a very, very ordinary longer distance runner (even for my age) which might just mean that.............

........ I think I'm a bit of a 'natural' over 5K and the age-grading thing has worked to my advantage (I hardly ever stray much outside the 70% AG category.) Looking back on my peak 5ks in the past couple of years, the biggest single breakthrough was when I trained for duathlons. Perhaps the bike/run training combo allowed me to absorb more training. Other than that I just went out and ran as fast as I could over distances of up to 5 miles probably no more than 3 or 4 times a week and I'd very rarely run anything like an hour. So after the marathon I'll just default to this. I think you are going to plateau at some stage and that's probably when you'll start looking at more advanced training techniques - and there's plenty on this thread who'll give good advice; I'm just sorry that I'm not really one of them!

Left Back · Oct 26, 2017

I'm surprised and intreged by how structured and scientific some of you train.
I just run when I can, for as far as I feel, as fast as I feel up to. Some weeks a park run is all I manage, other weeks I'll fit in another couple of runs at lunchtime and maybe Sunday too.
It's got me wondering, If I was too follow one of these plans would I see my times tumble? or would it turn running into a chore?

(I'm not a great swimmer, so I might swap that for either cycle or beer [emoji6])

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big nuts · Oct 26, 2017

Ninja Elephant said:
I think this is spot on, you need the speed work because it helps when you're running slower than that speed. The idea is that you run above race speed over a shorter distance, but I can't seem to do that - I struggle to run race speed in training more often than not.

I would say balance is THE key, and to do other things as well as running. Swimming, cycling, the rowing machine and cross trainer machines in the gym have all been key as well.

I've attached the training plans that Rob put together for me, feel free to pile in. You need to do longer distance for the endurance, but speed work to increase your threshold to run at pace. It's been a remarkable training year for me, beforehand I really was just going out and running a few miles here and there. I enjoy running, and I enjoy the steady timed runs as much if not more than the sprinting sessions but there's a lot to be said for the 6 x 90 seconds sessions because they really are tough even though the whole thing is done fairly quickly.

View attachment 90555 View attachment 90556

Very interesting from someone who's never run hill sprints, Fartlek or any other type of running. My miles have increased this year and I'm going to push 1000 for the year by far my biggest tally ever but I've not really got a structure.

I run 3 times a week Tuesday, Saturday & Sunday with football on a Thursday. My rest days are important, but I had a rare Wednesday run yesterday as I was working from home so snuck in 30 minutes for lunch.

I'm not sure I've got the discipline to stick rigidly to a plan but I could probably meet half way and have some specific sessions as my only speed work is Park Run and I've not been since the first week of September.

Ninja Elephant · Oct 27, 2017

I think it comes down to what you're looking to get out of running as well, at the start of this year I was very much of a mind to run more parkruns (30 in the bank so far!) and break a few records if I can (5k broken 5 times, 10k broken once, 10 miles broken once, Marathon broken once). I wasn't really thinking too much about quality, more about the stats and numbers but Rob challenged me to get quicker and be more structured. I followed a plan (mostly) before the Brighton Marathon and ran the 3:29 and during that I broke my 5k record a couple of times which got me thinking about pace and focusing on hammering a quick 5k time, which I'm happy I've now done. There was a challenge in the gym at my work throughout May which I won comfortably having rowed 2km 4 times a week each week.

The table of times has definitely helped for motivation, as has the ongoing tussle with [MENTION=18183]big nuts[/MENTION], and the collaboration for the Weakest Link which was excellent. I've enjoyed running harder sessions as well, rather than just plodding distances as I have done beforehand but ultimately I really enjoy running and the mindspace you get into. Variety has been good for me but everyone is different and the motivations are very different.

We spoke briefly in the past about forming an NSC Runners Club for the benefit of cheaper entry into events! Is that something people would be interested in looking into?

knocky1 · Oct 27, 2017

Ninja Elephant said:
I think it comes down to what you're looking to get out of running as well, at the start of this year I was very much of a mind to run more parkruns (30 in the bank so far!) and break a few records if I can (5k broken 5 times, 10k broken once, 10 miles broken once, Marathon broken once). I wasn't really thinking too much about quality, more about the stats and numbers but Rob challenged me to get quicker and be more structured. I followed a plan (mostly) before the Brighton Marathon and ran the 3:29 and during that I broke my 5k record a couple of times which got me thinking about pace and focusing on hammering a quick 5k time, which I'm happy I've now done. There was a challenge in the gym at my work throughout May which I won comfortably having rowed 2km 4 times a week each week.

The table of times has definitely helped for motivation, as has the ongoing tussle with [MENTION=18183]big nuts[/MENTION], and the collaboration for the Weakest Link which was excellent. I've enjoyed running harder sessions as well, rather than just plodding distances as I have done beforehand but ultimately I really enjoy running and the mindspace you get into. Variety has been good for me but everyone is different and the motivations are very different.

We spoke briefly in the past about forming an NSC Runners Club for the benefit of cheaper entry into events! Is that something people would be interested in looking into?

Something finally got you out of bed in the mornings! Remember the clock change on Sunday.

Also for everyone following training plans every 4th week should be a step back in effort and every plan should have recovery periods afterwards. If only I could adhere to that..................

Mr Blobby · Oct 27, 2017

Ninja Elephant said:
We spoke briefly in the past about forming an NSC Runners Club for the benefit of cheaper entry into events! Is that something people would be interested in looking into?

I would be interested in this. Save on average £2 an event. Not sure what you have to do to satisfy being an official club. I would be happy to do the accounts if not too much required. Happy to help look into this.

horshamite · Oct 27, 2017

Ninja Elephant said:
Sadly for me, I'm only able to get to week 6 this time for the 11th November so the final week will be sacrificed, and today is week 5. Which means back to the Marina slope for another 8 reps aiming for 45-50 seconds! It's a session that really adds outrageous value. It's the toughest session but a distance, and it's only a total distance of 160 metres!

Which is the Marina slope you use NE ?

Ninja Elephant · Oct 27, 2017

Mr Blobby said:
I would be interested in this. Save on average £2 an event. Not sure what you have to do to satisfy being an official club. I would be happy to do the accounts if not too much required. Happy to help look into this.

That's what I was thinking, it's cheaper entry. I need to look into the requirements etc, but I'll report back.

horshamite said:
Which is the Marina slope you use NE ?

It's the green line leading up from the marina to the A259. It's just a straight, sharp climb from the undercliff up to the road. Smash that 8 times and you feel it!

horshamite · Oct 27, 2017

Thanks for the info. I run along the (nice and flat) undercliff and know that turning. I'll have to investigate

Ninja Elephant · Oct 27, 2017

horshamite said:
Thanks for the info. I run along the (nice and flat) undercliff and know that turning. I'll have to investigate

It's just under 200 metres, it's a crazy climb but it's ideal for building strength and resistance. It's a segment on Strava, so if you're actively using that you'll get a comparison time. You're looking to go sub 50 seconds, ideally. :thumbsup:

horshamite · Oct 27, 2017

Sub 50

To this 2 stone overweight 63 yr old the only chance of me getting a sub 50 is if it's a type of sandwich!

knocky1 · Oct 27, 2017

horshamite said:
Sub 50 To this 2 stone overweight 63 yr old the only chance of me getting a sub 50 is if it's a type of sandwich!

Simple, just run it the other way round. Set Ninja a target.....

timbha · Oct 28, 2017

Random Parkrun thought.... if an Albion player ran it what would their time be and who is likely to be the best?

knocky1 · Oct 28, 2017

Baldock, March, Murphy, Izquierdo and maybe Bong for the final

? No doubt Ryan will be running after them.
100 metres Knocky and who??

Ninja Elephant · Oct 28, 2017

Pascal Gross would win out of all the Albion players, but it would have been Sparrow back when he was here.

I've warmed up for the Hove Prom 10k with an 18:46 around Hove Park, about 9 seconds quicker than my previous best and it's my second best time over the distance. A couple of weeks out of the sub-18 minute attempt and I'm feeling like it's possible.

Garry Nelson's teacher · Oct 28, 2017

21.18 for me in perfect conditions at Worthing. Some very quick guys out there today and some very impreesive age grades achieved across the categories.

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