Is this allowed?

clapham_gull · Jul 12, 2017

Wardy's twin said:
When will people get into their heads that discrimination is discrimination, all acts of discrimination are a positive action to achieve a negative affect on a united society. I am personally offended by this advert in the same way I would be offended if it said whites only or men only or rich people only. I will get over being offended as I am retired but put yourself in the place of a 20 year old unemployed white person from a poor working class background. It is ads like these which are ammunition for people like the EDL.

Sorry it isn't. Depends on what industry you work in.

You would be surprised. I know a big City Legal firm that on the quiet takes in some very troubled individuals.

That in itself is "discrimination" - discriminating on the basis that because of their background they would struggle to get a job stacking shelves.

They make sure they come out with some form of qualification, even if that means being excellent in the print room.

This isn't political correctness at all. Believe me it's a force for good.

Brightonfan1983 · Jul 13, 2017

Marshy said:
hate this sort of stuff. Best person for the job gets it regardless of your ethnic origin.

Unless you're from a BAME background, you really can't say this. You need to read up on your history, sit down and have a think. Cheers.

Albion my Albion · Jul 13, 2017

The_Viper said:
All roles advertised through Creative Access are only open to UK nationals from a black, Asian or non-white ethnic minority.

Lol what?

Edit - I'm no lawyer but just a basic google brings up this - https://www.gov.uk/employer-preventing-discrimination/recruitment

I'm sure they have a ton of loopholes but still, that's gross.

Pascal does not qualify.

Marshy · Jul 13, 2017

Brightonfan1983 said:
Unless you're from a BAME background, you really can't say this. You need to read up on your history, sit down and have a think. Cheers.

I really can say this, its the only correct statement in this thread, if treating everyone equally is wrong... then i really dont know what to do anymore, thats what i do and will continue to do.

The Merry Prankster · Jul 13, 2017

Marshy said:
I really can say this, its the only correct statement in this thread, if treating everyone equally is wrong... then i really dont know what to do anymore, thats what i do and will continue to do.

But people are not treated equally. You may do so but in general they are not. Things like this seek to redress the imbalance.

What gets me is that there has been unfairness for years and years and yet any hint of a small amount of unfairness tin the opposite direction that might be necessary to address this is, jumped on.

I'd have to question the motives of the jumpers.

Rod Marsh · Jul 13, 2017

The Merry Prankster said:
But people are not treated equally. You may do so but in general they are not. Things like this seek to redress the imbalance.

What gets me is that there has been unfairness for years and years and yet any hint of a small amount of unfairness tin the opposite direction that might be necessary to address this is, jumped on.

I'd have to question the motives of the jumpers.

What's fairness have to do with it? It's your idea of fairness. Honestly you'll be going for reparations next. Absolute nonsense.

You shouldn't punish innocent people for the wrong doings of others in the past which is what you are suggesting here.

Marshy · Jul 13, 2017

The Merry Prankster said:
But people are not treated equally. You may do so but in general they are not. Things like this seek to redress the imbalance.

What gets me is that there has been unfairness for years and years and yet any hint of a small amount of unfairness tin the opposite direction that might be necessary to address this is, jumped on.

I'd have to question the motives of the jumpers.

It may well redress the balance, but in my opinion it is not the way to go about it, education on this is the best way to go.

Adds like this as we can clearly see cause as many problems than they are solving in my opinion.

I would imagine there are people from a BAME background that would also be unhappy with this kind of job add ?

I really dont enjoy being told i need to read up on my history for daring to say I treat everyone equally.

The Merry Prankster · Jul 13, 2017

Marshy said:
It may well redress the balance, but in my opinion it is not the way to go about it, education on this is the best way to go.

Adds like this as we can clearly see cause as many problems than they are solving in my opinion.

I would imagine there are people from a BAME background that would also be unhappy with this kind of job add ?

I really dont enjoy being told i need to read up on my history for daring to say I treat everyone equally.

I didn't suggest you should.

Marshy · Jul 13, 2017

The Merry Prankster said:
I didn't suggest you should.

I know you didnt.

The Merry Prankster · Jul 13, 2017

Rod Marsh said:
What's fairness have to do with it? It's your idea of fairness. Honestly you'll be going for reparations next. Absolute nonsense.

You shouldn't punish innocent people for the wrong doings of others in the past which is what you are suggesting here.

Substitute "equality' for 'fairness'. If it helps. Inequality can be measured.

Great debating technique to link something perfectly reasonable with something extreme. Vote Labour - you must support Hamas.

Firstly I'm talking about addressing current inequality not historic and secondly what I'm suggesting is that if the process causes the pendulum to swing slightly the other way for a short period then that is a price worth paying.

Rod Marsh · Jul 13, 2017

The Merry Prankster said:
Substitute "equality' for 'fairness'. If it helps. Inequality can be measured.

Great debating technique to link something perfectly reasonable with something extreme. Vote Labour - you must support Hamas.

Firstly I'm talking about addressing current inequality not historic and secondly what I'm suggesting is that if the process causes the pendulum to swing slightly the other way for a short period then that is a price worth paying.

Equality has nothing to do with fairness. You are talking about equality of outcome. How you view the world should be. On top of that, what you suggested was not fairness. You suggested punishing a group of people based purely on the colour of skin. "a little unfairness" you seem to think is fine..

Equality of opportunity is all we should be seeking. If you can point out the individuals or companies that are not doing this then I will be happy to stand alongside you and see them punished.

The Merry Prankster · Jul 13, 2017

Rod Marsh said:
Equality has nothing to do with fairness. You are talking about equality of outcome. How you view the world should be. On top of that, what you suggested was not fairness. You suggested punishing a group of people based purely on the colour of skin. "a little unfairness" you seem to think is fine..

Equality of opportunity is all we should be seeking. If you can point out the individuals or companies that are not doing this then I will be happy to stand alongside you and see them punished.

As I understand it Equallity of opportunity means - even one is free to apply for a job, equality of outcome means - everyone has an equal chance of getting said job. You could argue and I would that that is "fair".

I have worked in places where everyone could apply for jobs, a mixture of people may be called for interview but the job was only ever going to go to a white male and it wasn't on merit. That is both unequal and unfair.

Rod Marsh · Jul 13, 2017

The Merry Prankster said:
As I understand it Equallity of opportunity means - even one is free to apply for a job, equality of outcome means - everyone has an equal chance of getting said job. You could argue and I would that that is "fair".

I have worked in places where everyone could apply for jobs, a mixture of people may be called for interview but the job was only ever going to go to a white male and it wasn't on merit. That is both unequal and unfair.

I'm sad to hear that. How do you know the white male got the job purely on the colour of his skin? Sadly, stopping individual racism is impossible. However, punishing an entire group of people to make things "less unfair" is not right. It could also be described as racism. If you are giving advantage to a group of people over others because of the colour of skin. Everything should be done on an individual level in my opinion. As soon as this "group justice" comes in to play that's when it all goes wrong as it takes away from the individual justice.

The Merry Prankster · Jul 13, 2017

Rod Marsh said:
I'm sad to hear that. How do you know the white male got the job purely on the colour of his skin? Sadly, stopping individual racism is impossible. However, punishing an entire group of people to make things "less unfair" is not right. It could also be described as racism. If you are giving advantage to a group of people over others because of the colour of skin. Everything should be done on an individual level in my opinion. As soon as this "group justice" comes in to play that's when it all goes wrong as it takes away from the individual justice.

Your response is, seemingly, a contradiction. "Sadly stopping individual racism is impossible"..............."Everything should be done on an individual level".

I know the some of the other applicants didn't on the basis of their skin colour. Seemingly reasonable discussions about 'different cultures" and 'upsetting the balance of the workforce" etc. the mealymouthed corporate face of racism.

Rod Marsh · Jul 13, 2017

The Merry Prankster said:
Your response is, seemingly, a contradiction. "Sadly stopping individual racism is impossible"..............."Everything should be done on an individual level".

I know the some of the other applicants didn't on the basis of their skin colour. Seemingly reasonable discussions about 'different cultures" and 'upsetting the balance of the workforce" etc. the mealymouthed corporate face of racism.

Justice should be served on an individual, not at group level. Stopping racism at an individual level is impossible. I hope that makes it a bit clearer.

Albion my Albion · Jul 13, 2017

Rod Marsh said:
OK, so the NBA is dominated by black men. Are white men discriminated against because they have a low representation level in the league? Of course they are not.

It's interesting. There is a debate among Americans that NBA teams try extremely hard to find white American talent so that their fans can identify with more of the players. At one time the Boston Celtics we're accused of signing more white players, Larry Bird, Danny Ainge, Bill Walton, Dave Cowan's, Kevin McHale, John Havlicek, etc. Boston just signed one of the best American white players in the NBA, Gordon Hayward. But the reason was mostly because his college coach, Brad Stevens, is now the Celtics coach.

Wardy's twin · Jul 13, 2017

The Merry Prankster said:
As I understand it Equallity of opportunity means - even one is free to apply for a job, equality of outcome means - everyone has an equal chance of getting said job. You could argue and I would that that is "fair".

I have worked in places where everyone could apply for jobs, a mixture of people may be called for interview but the job was only ever going to go to a white male and it wasn't on merit. That is both unequal and unfair.

Then surely said employer was reported to appropriate people where a quick case investigation would prove the point.

Rod Marsh · Jul 13, 2017

Albion my Albion said:
It's interesting. There is a debate among Americans that NBA teams try extremely hard to find white American talent so that their fans can identify with more of the players. At one time the Boston Celtics we're accused of signing more white players, Larry Bird, Danny Ainge, Bill Walton, Dave Cowan's, Kevin McHale, John Havlicek, etc. Boston just signed one of the best American white players in the NBA, Gordon Hayward. But the reason was mostly because his college coach, Brad Stevens, is now the Celtics coach.

Exactly, can you imagine the uproar now if an NBA team owner declared they wanted more white men in the squad so that it matched the viewing audience/customer base. The uproar would be out of this world.

It's common practice now for business to try and employ more women or people from minority groups to reflect customer base etc and this is considered by many as a non discriminatory practice. I argue that by promoting one group of people that you discriminate against anyone not in that group.

It's such a mess. When did people stop identifying as individuals and instead belonging in a group? The victim mentality it creates is so harmful. I find it very sad.

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