Massive fire in London - Grenfell Tower in Shepherds Bush

beorhthelm · Jun 16, 2017

Guinness Boy said:
Incredible that any Brighton fan would condemn the protests. We were going to lose a ground, community, identity and fought like tooth and nail including direct action. These people have lost everything, homes, possessions, children and they're somehow being duped by the hard left?

judging by pictures of residents in the papers those at the town hall this afternoon, doesnt look like those from Grenfell are the protestors. what are generic plcards with "defy tory rule - strike, march, occupy" got to do with this tragedy?

pastafarian · Jun 16, 2017

Guinness Boy said:
Incredible that any Brighton fan would condemn the protests. We were going to lose a ground, community, identity and fought like tooth and nail including direct action. These people have lost everything, homes, possessions, children and they're somehow being duped by the hard left?

F*** off and have a long word with yourselves in the corner.

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wind your neck in.
i am not condemning the protests, they have every right to protest and be angry as bloody hell.
I see no need or any good coming out of it by socialist worker sticking their political agenda oar in.though
So if you dont mind i wont shut up in my condemnation of that particular group(SW) simply because you dont want to hear it.

Guinness Boy · Jun 16, 2017

East Preston Gull said:
For your information my work mate was in London today. The families in Kensington have every right to storm Kensington offices for answers.

Good, you agree with me then. Why did you waste your time on the rest of your post?

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Guinness Boy · Jun 16, 2017

pastafarian said:
wind your neck in.
i am not condemning the protests, they have every right to protest and be angry as bloody hell.
I see no need or any good coming out of it by socialist worker sticking their political agenda oar in.though
So if you dont mind i wont shut up in my condemnation of that particular group(SW) simply because you dont want to hear it.

I didn't quote you either did I? I said "incredible any Brighton fan would condemn the protests". Why did you feel the need to reply?

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clapham_gull · Jun 16, 2017

No one government has been to blame, it's been a slow decline since Thatcher.

We have all benefited from the free market but no government has dealt with the lack of affordable housing and the rise in price of the limited housing available in London.

I was very very lucky to buy a flat in London for less than you could buy one in Brighton now. I sold that for double and I dread to think what this place ia now worth.

The problem is that only the very rich have the chance to do what I did then.

Those earning what I did then are spending the majority of their wages on rent.

Beneath that who knows.

Its all about homes up here which is why this event has upset me so much more than a terrorist attack.

I'm tired of seeing 1 million pound apartments going up in this areas.

.. and I'm beginning to understand why people are looking for alternative politician solutions.

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East Preston Gull · Jun 16, 2017

Guinness Boy said:
Good, you agree with me then. Why did you waste your time on the rest of your post?

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Oh, you can tell me **** off and have a word with myself but don't like a return.

That tells me alot about your leanings.

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dazzer6666 · Jun 16, 2017

Nicked from the Times

pastafarian · Jun 16, 2017

Guinness Boy said:
I didn't quote you either did I? I said "incredible any Brighton fan would condemn the protests". Why did you feel the need to reply?

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you didnt quote anyone
you could just clarify which brighton fans you were referring to then when you said "Incredible that any Brighton fan would condemn the protests" or perhaps just go and sleep it off.

larus · Jun 16, 2017

Until we know the cause of the fire spreading so fast, why are people jumping in with condemnation?

I haven't read everything, but there appears to be a lot of 'not out fault guv' going on here.

Was the work done with cheap materials?
Was the work done to latest building regs?
Were there shortcuts/cost cuts to save money?

What do we do with older block of flats (of which there a lots) which don't meet modern building regs? Do we spend huge amounts or demolish? Where does this money come from (the reality is the country is still spending more than it's getting in in taxation, so we can't do everything)?
What happens when the next upgrade comes through to build in regs? Do we then demolish another chunk of buildings due to new information?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and the politics of opposition/protest is easy as you don't have to make decisions.

Do we blame the government at the time of construction?

I'm not defending TM as I don't like her (even as a Tory voter), but the knee-jerk reaction to blame the Tories when we don't know the facts is sick. However, any review should be independent and quick. Anyone culpable in government, council of private company, planners, building inspectors etc should be charges accordingly,

Steve in Japan · Jun 16, 2017

News at Ten now seems to be moving to new territory. Tom Bradby musing on all sorts of thoughts...."holding up a mirror to a divided nation", or similar, he concluded. He might be right but that's an editorial mine path isn't it?

I am sickened by this tragedy, my heart breaks for the families. But facts first and quickly. Any other way is madness.

Bry Nylon · Jun 16, 2017

Let's recover the dead with dignity and return them to their families before we start pulling each other to pieces.

portlock seagull · Jun 17, 2017

Bry Nylon said:
Let's recover the dead with dignity and return them to their families before we start pulling each other to pieces.

I wish that was possible but people are angry and generally also dont know how to behave day to day so no chance during event like this. An example is one of the local community has just been jailed for uploading pictures of the dead on social media. I struggle to understand why you would even think of doing that. Although I'm sure some will blame Theresa May for that too.

Billy the Fish · Jun 17, 2017

Why has this turned into a thread about Theresa May? Probably best to keep it on topic, maybe start another thread for the political posturing and bullshit :shrug:

Guinness Boy · Jun 17, 2017

Billy the Fish said:
Why has this turned into a thread about Theresa May? Probably best to keep it on topic, maybe start another thread for the political posturing and bullshit

It shouldn't be about Theresa May specifically - I posted that earlier in the day - but it IS political. Not just here but everywhere. All over the mainstream media, all over Twitter and Facebook took. If this was a tragic car or plane accident for example there would be no need to bring politics in to it at all. No one did with Shoreham,

But the fact is the government defeated a Labour amendment for a review of the safety of rented housing in the last parliament.
The fact is Gavin Barwell, when Housing Minister sat on a fire safety report without ever making it public.
The fact is the residents predicted this in a blog.
The fact is that when a tower block full of people who couldn't afford to rent privately in inner London goes up like a matchstick it becomes an issue of them and us.

I don't doubt for a second that a few of the usual aggro seeking suspects joined in or attempted to hijack the protests but the majority of angry people are those associated to the victims, the displaced themselves and people living in similar accommodation.

This has the makings of class war (note small case letters), frankly, and that's as political as you get.

The Antikythera Mechanism · Jun 17, 2017

Billy the Fish said:
Why has this turned into a thread about Theresa May? Probably best to keep it on topic, maybe start another thread for the political posturing and bullshit

I agree. This is about design and building regulations, not politics. An architect will have specified the cladding system and Building Regulations Officers (Civil Servants) will have approved the design and inspected the works as they proceeded and on completion. There will have been RAMS produced that will have been approved by the construction team. In addition, why did the fridge explode?

vegster · Jun 17, 2017

portlock seagull said:
I wish that was possible but people are angry and generally also dont know how to behave day to day so no chance during event like this. An example is one of the local community has just been jailed for uploading pictures of the dead on social media. I struggle to understand why you would even think of doing that. Although I'm sure some will blame Theresa May for that too.

Disgusting if true, but jailed ? I have never known the wheels of justice to turn that fast ?

Herr Tubthumper · Jun 17, 2017

The Antikythera Mechanism said:
I agree. This is about design and building regulations, not politics. An architect will have specified the cladding system and Building Regulations Officers (Civil Servants) will have approved the design and inspected the works as they proceeded and on completion. There will have been RAMS produced that will have been approved by the construction team. In addition, why did the fridge explode?

[MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION] has made a very eloquent case as to why this is politics.

My take is that everything we currently know which did and didn't happen simply would not have occurred had it been a wealthy person's tower block. E.g. their concerns would not have been constantly batted away and ignored. For this alone its politics.

neilbard · Jun 17, 2017

vegster said:
Disgusting if true, but jailed ? I have never known the wheels of justice to turn that fast ?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-who-uncovered-body-grenfell-10631917

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/man-jailed-for-opening-body-bag-and-taking-picture-of-grenfell-tower-victim-6714707/

Is it PotG? · Jun 17, 2017

Amazing how the news (Beeb) has started this morning. Not about the missing, the survivors, the way ahead but 'Corbyn has complained about the amount of money pledged'.

Priorities people, priorities. :nono:

whitelion · Jun 17, 2017

neilbard said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-who-uncovered-body-grenfell-10631917

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/man-jailed-for-opening-body-bag-and-taking-picture-of-grenfell-tower-victim-6714707/

Not jailed though - in custody awaiting court.

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Massive fire in London - Grenfell Tower in Shepherds Bush

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