[News] Hither Green 'burglar' stabbing: Man, 78, arrested

A mex eyecan · Apr 4, 2018

If someone decides to break into a property, they have made a conscious descision to break the law of the land.
I still don't see why then, given their choice to,go against the law that they should have any form of protection that the law offers to upstanding citizens?

Cake and friggin eat it comes to mind

essbee1 · Apr 4, 2018

A mex eyecan said:
If someone decides to break into a property, they have made a conscious descision to break the law of the land.
I still don't see why then, given their choice to,go against the law that they should have any form of protection that the law offers to upstanding citizens?

Cake and friggin eat it comes to mind

I used to think along the same lines, but you need to consider the situation where the householder deliberately tries to lure someone they wanted to harm badly into their house.
For whatever reason. If we looked at that at face value - it would be self-defence. Perhaps I've been watching too many crime/detective stories.

A mex eyecan · Apr 4, 2018

essbee1 said:
I used to think along the same lines, but you need to consider the situation where the householder deliberately tries to lure someone they wanted to harm badly into their house.
For whatever reason. If we looked at that at face value - it would be self-defence. Perhaps I've been watching too many crime/detective stories.

Fair point, but how many cases such as that have ever been argued?

Weststander · Apr 4, 2018

The vermin had every advantage - numbers, surprise, pumped up, screwdriver to hand, relatively youth which comes with strength. Most probably planning and experience. This was an aggravated burglary.

The old guy had the shock of intruders in his house in the middle of the night.

He has all my sympathies, and they none.

essbee1 · Apr 4, 2018

A mex eyecan said:
Fair point, but how many cases such as that have ever been argued?

Probably not many - but that is why we cant simply assume that every one of these cases is self-defence. If we
did - and I'm no lawyer - then an innocent person gets killed and the murderer gets let off - an equally crap
situation you'd agree?

Stato · Apr 4, 2018

Wrong-Direction said:
No no no you're supposed to help the bloke carry your tv to his van ffs

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

This kind of attitude is very dated.

You don't need two people to carry a modern flat-screen.

sams dad · Apr 4, 2018

Weststander said:
The vermin had every advantage - numbers, surprise, pumped up, screwdriver to hand, relatively youth which comes with strength. Most probably planning and experience. This was an aggravated burglary.

The old guy had the shock of intruders in his house in the middle of the night.

He has all my sympathies, and they none.

A mex eyecan · Apr 4, 2018

essbee1 said:
Probably not many - but that is why we cant simply assume that every one of these cases is self-defence. If we
did - and I'm no lawyer - then an innocent person gets killed and the murderer gets let off - an equally crap
situation you'd agree?

in principle yes i would,

drew · Apr 4, 2018

Seasidesage said:
Its not often I subscribe to the countries gone to the Dogs theory but. The stupidity of the establishment in this country never ceases to amaze me. Good luck with finding a jury that'll convict the guy, not that this will get that far.

Does it not occur to you that he has been arrested almost certainly as a formality at this stage. Who knows what the background to this case but I suspect if there is no history between them it will be a case of self defence, providing he hasn't stabbed him beyond recognition in a frenzy!!

clapham_gull · Apr 4, 2018

lost in london said:
So all that has happened is that he is in custody answering police questions? It's hardly the world going to the dogs is it. Sounds like a bog standard move by the police in a potential (but seemingly unlikely) murder case whilst they get to the bottom of what went on.

What else would people expect the police to do in this situation?

Exactly.

But according to some on here he has already been charged.

The law is perfectly reasonable in cases like this and has been for years.

The Tony Martin case was a one off.

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Seasidesage · Apr 4, 2018

drew said:
Does it not occur to you that he has been arrested almost certainly as a formality at this stage. Who knows what the background to this case but I suspect if there is no history between them it will be a case of self defence, providing he hasn't stabbed him beyond recognition in a frenzy!!

Strangely yes it had. Thanks for pointing it out though.

PS I suspect you are correct.

vegster · Apr 4, 2018

Sad case all round, let's hope justice is done and seen to be done.

vegster · Apr 4, 2018

Ninja Elephant said:
This thread is going to get intense.

For what it's worth, unless he's gone absolutely mental and cut this guy's face off - you have to be able to defend yourself in your own home from people who have broken in. I would expect and want my family members to protect themselves in the same scenario and charging him with murder seems very harsh in the extreme. We don't know the facts of the case, but on the face of it - this isn't right.

That's why they have to go through due process.

Driver8 · Apr 4, 2018

vegster said:
Sad case all round, let's hope justice is done and seen to be done.

Sounds like it has been for one of the burglars.

vegster · Apr 4, 2018

alfredmizen said:
A screwdriver isnt much of a weapon so "not really armed" [emoji38]ol:

Of course, you'd have your illegally imported Yugoslavian shooter.

sams dad · Apr 4, 2018

Driver8 said:
Sounds like it has been for one of the burglars.

It’s a pity that the pensioner wasn’t able to kill both of the scum ********.

Diablo · Apr 4, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
Holding a screwdriver isn't much of a weapon, so not really armed. If the pensioner kept a knife specifically to use against intruders, it can be construed as premeditated.
There are very few details in this case, so it's hard to discuss the rights and wrongs of it.

Imagine most of us keep knives in our Kitchens....If in the middle of the night I came across two blokes with or without weapons in my house...A. I`d be shit scared. B. I`d do anything I could with anything to hand to protect my family. A pensioner against two middle aged blokes. Well done him !!

Thunder Bolt · Apr 4, 2018

Diablo said:
Imagine most of us keep knives in our Kitchens....If in the middle of the night I came across two blokes with or without weapons in my house...A. I`d be shit scared. B. I`d do anything I could with anything to hand to protect my family. A pensioner against two middle aged blokes. Well done him !!

I'm a pensioner in my 70th year & this has already happened to me, 27 years ago. It was 5am, and i heard a noise downstairs.
I thought it was one of my kids.
The burglars ran away, but I was still very shaken up when I thought what could have happened. One was in the kitchen, but had left the door wide open for a get away, the other was on the road in a van.
Give the police their due, they arrived within 30 mins.
One was caught, & a female who tried to use my daughter's credit card, a couple of weeks later.

Dougie · Apr 4, 2018

One scumbag off the streets , unable to bring misery to decent people anymore . All good in my books

sams dad · Apr 4, 2018

Dougie said:
One scumbag off the streets , unable to bring misery to decent people anymore . All good in my books

**** me I must be going soft, I’m in agreement with a Palace fan. :thumbsup:

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