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Step forward Andy Burnham, British prime minister in May 2020



Behind Enemy Lines

Behind Enemy Lines

Well-known member
Jul 18, 2003
4,818
London
London Irish said:
Of course not but it's going to become an increasingly strong factor, the two others will be strong credible leadership which Burnham gives and the economy, and I think the Tory excuses of why people won't have got a pay rise will have worn threadbare by 2020 (remember Major got the boot with GDP growth at 4%).

Happy to hear what else you think will be needed.

Selling out to Murdoch as Blair did is not an option, if that's people's definition of being "aspirational" they can stick it.
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The NHS is important of course it is but will it really be the decisive issue? Didn't seem to help Labour much this time round. John Major got the boot because after 4 straight election defeats Labour finally got its act together and had a leader who appealed across the board. This was in a time of never ending Tory sleaze which went side-by-side with the disaster of "crashing" out of the ERM and "Black Monday;" the result of which was millions of people went into negative equity. The 4% growth came too late for those people to vote Tory again, then. And then there was also the Conservatives San Andrea's Fault: Europe: an issue which will dominate the next two years. After that, yes the NHS and The Tory's "cuts" agenda will be high on people's minds but in my view, Labour must strive not just to oppose but also to offer an alternative - a vision and plan of how things could be better. At the moment I'm struggling to see whom might be best articulate that.
 




L

London Irish

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2003
22,000
Trapped inside the Project for the New American Ce
Green Cross Code Man said:
What leads you to think that wishing to leave the EU makes one a Tory?
Click to expand...

Glad to help on this - from a news report today:

"One Eurosceptic MP said: “We have also won new muscle because he [Cameron] will need our votes in the Commons.”

Mr Cameron could usually ignore his hardline critics under the Coalition because the Liberal Democrats gave him an overall majority of more than 70. But with his majority down to 12, a rebellion by a small number of Tories could defeat him."



Honeymoon over already guys :)
 


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,254
Surrey
London Irish said:
Of course not but it's going to become an increasingly strong factor, the two others will be strong credible leadership which Burnham gives and the economy, and I think the Tory excuses of why people won't have got a pay rise will have worn threadbare by 2020 (remember Major got the boot with GDP growth at 4%).

Happy to hear what else you think will be needed.

Selling out to Murdoch as Blair did is not an option, if that's people's definition of being "aspirational" they can stick it.
Click to expand...

Firstly, who says this idea that the NHS needs protecting from the Tories is going to become an increasingly strong factor? Even if it becomes a political issue, I think we are getting to the point where the public recognises that the NHS simply cannot continue to operate as it has done historically. I think we need better solutions than throwing more money at it from the public purse. In fact, even as a centre left voter, I thought it was shameful that Labour even tried to make it an election issue.

On the second point, I swear you subconsciously ignore everybody and anybody contributing to this thread until you hear what you want to hear. In this example, he's already told you what else he thinks is needed when he said: "They need to be positive and aspirational." Just because you decided that was a load of wishy washy tripe, doesn't mean everybody else agrees with you. I for one agree with him. It's actually very important.

I should also say that ultimately, image and being media savvy shouldn't matter as much as it does, but that's where we are I'm afraid. And it's a bitter pill to swallow, but Labour moving too far left by electing a more socialist leader simply sets up that leader as targets for a right wing press and ultimately leaves them unelectable. Personally I think Kinnock was the best leader never to be PM. Dignified throughout, he performed much needed root and branch changes to the Labour party (that Derek Hatton moment was brilliant) but was vilified for being Welsh and ginger, all because he was a little too pro EU, too left wing and too principled to smarm with the right wing press.

So I think is why above all else, Labour need a strong leader, with the courage to sweep out the old guard entirely, and the ability to work within the constraints of a right wing press, as taking them on can only ever be done when Labour have the support large enough to withstand a concerted media campaign against them.
 


L

London Irish

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2003
22,000
Trapped inside the Project for the New American Ce
Simster said:
Firstly, who says this idea that the NHS needs protecting from the Tories is going to become an increasingly strong factor? Even if it becomes a political issue, I think we are getting to the point where the public recognises that the NHS simply cannot continue to operate as it has done historically. I think we need better solutions than throwing more money at it from the public purse. In fact, even as a centre left voter, I thought it was shameful that Labour even tried to make it an election issue.

On the second point, I swear you subconsciously ignore everybody and anybody contributing to this thread until you hear what you want to hear. In this example, he's already told you what else he thinks is needed when he said: "They need to be positive and aspirational." Just because you decided that was a load of wishy washy tripe, doesn't mean everybody else agrees with you. I for one agree with him. It's actually very important.

I should also say that ultimately, image and being media savvy shouldn't matter as much as it does, but that's where we are I'm afraid. And it's a bitter pill to swallow, but Labour moving too far left by electing a more socialist leader simply sets up that leader as targets for a right wing press and ultimately leaves them unelectable. Personally I think Kinnock was the best leader never to be PM. Dignified throughout, he performed much needed root and branch changes to the Labour party (that Derek Hatton moment was brilliant) but was vilified for being Welsh and ginger, all because he was a little too pro EU, too left wing and too principled to smarm with the right wing press.

So I think is why above all else, Labour need a strong leader, with the courage to sweep out the old guard entirely, and the ability to work within the constraints of a right wing press, as taking them on can only ever be done when Labour have the support large enough to withstand a concerted media campaign against them.
Click to expand...

So...any idea of a name yet? Who fits the bill for you and who doesn't?
 


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,254
Surrey
London Irish said:
So...any idea of a name yet? Who fits the bill for you and who doesn't?
Click to expand...

I'll say it again - please bother to READ answers when you ask for them. I have already said twice today that I favour Yvette Cooper and given reasons. Once on this thread, once on the election one.
 




Bry Nylon

Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
19,908
Playing snooker
Simster said:
pot-kettle-black.jpg
Click to expand...

Racist
 


L

London Irish

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2003
22,000
Trapped inside the Project for the New American Ce
Simster said:
I'll say it again - please bother to READ answers when you ask for them. I have already said twice today that I favour Yvette Cooper and given reasons. Once on this thread, once on the election one.
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Temper, temper, some of us have busy jobs and shock horror can't spend all day on NSC poring over your collected works.

What about the Balls factor? If you already answered this, just give a # number

You can guarantee there won't be a single front page of the Sun that won't refer to her as MRS BALLS
 


chimneys

chimneys

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2007
3,590
Just watched the David Milliband interview just shown . He gets it, he really does!

Suggest some on here study what he says!
 




L

London Irish

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2003
22,000
Trapped inside the Project for the New American Ce


Simster

Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,254
Surrey
London Irish said:
Temper, temper, some of us have busy jobs and shock horror can't spend all day on NSC poring over your collected works.

What about the Balls factor? If you already answered this, just give a # number

You can guarantee there won't be a single front page of the Sun that won't refer to her as MRS BALLS
Click to expand...
Again I have answered all this, you only have to read.

And you seem to have confused a temper with my mild frustration at your inability to read and/or interpret opposing points of view. I'm sure it's not your fault, I think you must do it subconsciously.

But I can only imagine how you'd react to people ignoring your dreary lecturing you like to dress up as intellectual thinking. And believe me, it's hard work reading your posts. I really struggle to believe you're a journalist to be honest. You can spell but your writing style is woefully lacking any sort of bite, beyond an ability to grate that Katie Hopkins would be proud of.
 


G

Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,365
Uffern




Bry Nylon

Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
19,908
Playing snooker
The Labour Party has no divine right to exist. They can ignore the verdict the electorate has just delivered if they really wish to and move to the left but they will lose all relevance to all but 20 - 23% of the voting population. If the Labour Party wish to be no more than a left-leaning Think Tank that publishes the occasional dreary essay on socialism that is fine by me, but they will never be a party of government.
 


Gregory2Smith1

Gregory2Smith1

J'les aurai!
Sep 21, 2011
5,476
Auch
would be very surprised if the economy went tits up in the next 5 years

Cameroon has been leader of the Conservative Party for what 10 years Prime Minister since 2010,doing a far better job than most predicted

the next Labour leader is a sitting duck
 






peterward

peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
11,387
London Irish said:
Of course not but it's going to become an increasingly strong factor, the two others will be strong credible leadership which Burnham gives and the economy, and I think the Tory excuses of why people won't have got a pay rise will have worn threadbare by 2020 (remember Major got the boot with GDP growth at 4%).

Happy to hear what else you think will be needed.

Selling out to Murdoch as Blair did is not an option, if that's people's definition of being "aspirational" they can stick it.
Click to expand...

The most bias rag is the mirror Fact, the guardian is utterly pro labour..... Yet the left always bleat about Murdoch... Even though not a peep was heard when he backed new labour for a decade.... It's utter hypocrisy.

I don't like Burnham at all as he's old labour, and the lefties just don't seem to grasp that it's not the lefts support you need it's Worcester woman and mondeo man middle England, without which.you can't win, and you won't win with old labour leaders/policy's. Blair and Mandelson are right to insist the way to the summit is through the centre...

And as Blair succinctly capped this election.... A traditional labour party fought a traditional conservative party with the traditional result.

Go centrist and they may yet get.my vote or stay on the left unrepresentative of vast swathes of voters and enjoy opposition
 
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peterward

peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
11,387
Gregory2 said:
would be very surprised if the economy went tits up in the next 5 years

Cameroon has been leader of the Conservative Party for what 10 years Prime Minister since 2010,doing a far better job than most predicted

the next Labour leader is a sitting duck
Click to expand...

With the electoral reform committees proposed boundary changes (which favour the Tories more than labour) that mountain is going to be much steeper
 




M

Mellor 3 Ward 4

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2004
9,838
saaf of the water
Simster said:
Again I have answered all this, you only have to read.

And you seem to have confused a temper with my mild frustration at your inability to read and/or interpret opposing points of view. I'm sure it's not your fault, I think you must do it subconsciously.

But I can only imagine how you'd react to people ignoring your dreary lecturing you like to dress up as intellectual thinking. And believe me, it's hard work reading your posts. I really struggle to believe you're a journalist to be honest. You can spell but your writing style is woefully lacking any sort of bite, beyond an ability to grate that Katie Hopkins would be proud of.
Click to expand...

You're trying to tell me LI is a journo?

Who does he write for, The Beano?
 




R

ROSM

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2005
6,252
Just far enough away from LDC
Gregory2 said:
would be very surprised if the economy went tits up in the next 5 years

Cameroon has been leader of the Conservative Party for what 10 years Prime Minister since 2010,doing a far better job than most predicted

the next Labour leader is a sitting duck
Click to expand...

Interestingly, many economists are predicting just that. The gdp growth slow down that we saw last quarter was predicted about a year ago. It was that reason that the labour and tory manifestos looked like cross dressing. Labour couldn't over promise and bribe as they really believe the economy will tank.

I'm not saying they're right, but just saying thay eminent economists do think this will happen and that austerity has impacted our ability to withstand it.
 


seagullsovergrimsby

seagullsovergrimsby

#cpfctinpotclub
Aug 21, 2005
43,690
Crap Town
brakespear said:
Michael Foot was a very good politician torn to pieces by the right-wing press, especially The Sun. The rest, maybe :)
Click to expand...

Michael Foot was a brilliant orator who stood by his principles , if the daily nationals with a rightist agenda slag you off there isn't much you can do about it.
 


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