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Brace yourselves over Stokes...
- Thread starter Tooting Gull
- Start date
spring hall convert
Well-known member
I'm probably going to get flamed for this.
I'd leave Stokes at home. It's probably as good as forfeiting the series but this is about the long term good of the player. In Stokes we have a guy who can be at the top level for another 10 years or we can have a Flintoff that has two years at the top and a whole load of mediocre.
Perhaps a period of reflection might enable him to focus on being the best cricketer he can possibly be.
I'd leave Stokes at home. It's probably as good as forfeiting the series but this is about the long term good of the player. In Stokes we have a guy who can be at the top level for another 10 years or we can have a Flintoff that has two years at the top and a whole load of mediocre.
Perhaps a period of reflection might enable him to focus on being the best cricketer he can possibly be.
Braggfan
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
- May 12, 2014
- 1,831
I'd only leave him out if he felt there was to much distraction. In terms of his behaviour I don't think he did anything wrong.
spring hall convert
Well-known member
Of course there's something wrong. He's out, pissed, in season, 36 hours before he should be playing. Top level professional sportsmen like Stokes don't do that these days, it is incongruous with being the best in world (something I very much hope Stokes aspires to be.)
It's also not the first time off the field conduct has been an issue with him. I believe if he gets away with it, it will be bad for him long term in the same way as Flintoff's lack of off the field professionalism undoubtedly shortened his career.
Braggfan
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
- May 12, 2014
- 1,831
Yeah ok, you're right being pissed 36 hours before he should be playing isn't great. When I said he hadn't done anything wrong, I was referring to him defending himself. But you're right he shouldn't have been in that situation. However, as frustrating as that is, I don't think he should be dropped because of it. I'm fairly sure there are plenty of players in both the England and Australian teams that will have been out for drinks 36 hours before a game.
Kalimantan Gull
Well-known member
lads!
The other guy is waving a bottle at him so I would have though self-defence was a reasonable argument. Of course by the time the guy gets flattened he should probably have been stopped, what were his mates doing? The only way aggressive people get out of fights is by being pulled back by their mates, happens all the time.
The other guy is waving a bottle at him so I would have though self-defence was a reasonable argument. Of course by the time the guy gets flattened he should probably have been stopped, what were his mates doing? The only way aggressive people get out of fights is by being pulled back by their mates, happens all the time.
Buffalo Seagull
Active member
He didn't just defend himself though. Before he knocked the bloke out, there were plenty of opportunities to walk away. The two blokes he was fighting were backing away, and his mates were urging him to stop. But Stokes kept going.
Given that the bloke he hit fell back and hit his head on the road, Stokes should be thankful that this didn't have a much, much worse ending.
spring hall convert
Well-known member
Its a tough one. I respect both sides of this debate.
I just get a hunch with Stokes, taking into account prior behaviour that there is an issue here that needs addressing rather than ignoring and hoping it will go away. There's also the ghost of Trott, Trescothick, Flintoff and Harmison and their self-acknowledged mental health battles lingering over this one for me. Perhaps it is time for the ECB to prove they have learnt some lessons and put the long term wellbeing of the player in front of short term concerns.
I'm not into the idea of 'punishing' Stokes, that'll be for the courts to decide. I just want his career to be the longest and most fruitful it can possibly be for England and at the moment alarm bells are ringing.
Braggfan
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
- May 12, 2014
- 1,831
To be fair the first guy starts waving a bottle, Stokes punches him and they fall over. The guy with bottle's mate grabs stokes and starts swinging at him, so he has two people attacking him. I think in a situation like that you're entitled to make sure there not going to come back at you. And backing away is very different to turning and walking away which they didn't do. I appreciate we may well disagree on this, but I don't think Stokes was the aggressor and frankly as mentioned before I'm pleased he knocked that lad out.
Braggfan
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
- May 12, 2014
- 1,831
I totally understand where you're coming from now. Stokes is undeniably a fantastic talent and we have seen players fade in the past. I think it's a little bit unfair to count Trescothick and Trott in that category as they had different demons. Stokes is definitely in the Flintoff and Botham category. The truth is though I'm not sure what to do with that. My head says the same as you, he needs to calm down and refelct on what can prolong his career. But my heart says, maybe that x factor he has comes from his passion and wild streak and maybe he needs that to deliver the fantastic perfomances he has in the past.
spring hall convert
Well-known member
Mental health issues are mental health issues. A player that repeatedly acts against their better interests, with or without the help of drink needs help in my book. I think this may well be where we are with Stokes.
At the very least the ECB need to make 100% sure he's right before they even think about sending him to Australia because he's going to get dogs abuse out there. If he has any sort of issue with keeping his drinking in check (which to be frank it appears he does) it will be exacerbated in the heat of an Ashes series.
GloryDays
Well-known member
If it looks bad for him how do you think the other guy feels getting punched out like that? No excuse from Stokes - unacceptable way for an adult to behave. Brat.
And crickets shit anyway.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
2 match ban. Didn't play until the 3rd test in that Ashes series. Joe Root or the bar didn't press charges so police not involved.
LamieRobertson
Not awoke
Not sure thats relevant personally
- Apr 5, 2014
- 23,530
I thought this Stokes footage showed that he was in full TRAINING for the AFTERS that happen following each match in Oz.
He's clearly our FINEST player.
jakarta
Well-known member
Self defence is if it is proportional to the perceived threat.
I would argue if several people are coming after me, one armed with a bottle, throwing a punch seems reasonable.
It isn't as if he then goes on to give him a shoeing as well.
Should not have been there in the first place of course.
I would argue if several people are coming after me, one armed with a bottle, throwing a punch seems reasonable.
It isn't as if he then goes on to give him a shoeing as well.
Should not have been there in the first place of course.
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He may have been defending himself (we don't know the full story yet), but the real stupidity on his part is allowing himself to get into a position where something like that might happen in the first place - ie being apparently lashed up at 2am in the morning in the middle of a one-day series. Be interesting to know if anyone tried to stop him too - does look a bit like one of the guys is trying to pull him back at one point.
If he is cleared and goes to Oz, I fear for him to be honest. Every time he goes out for a drink some brave, pissed up Aussie will be looking to wind him up and trigger a reaction, let alone what sledging he is going to get on the pitch. Really looks like he needs to get some help in managing his thought processes and emotions - hope he gets it as he's risking a massive talent going to complete waste at this rate.
If he is cleared and goes to Oz, I fear for him to be honest. Every time he goes out for a drink some brave, pissed up Aussie will be looking to wind him up and trigger a reaction, let alone what sledging he is going to get on the pitch. Really looks like he needs to get some help in managing his thought processes and emotions - hope he gets it as he's risking a massive talent going to complete waste at this rate.