[Politics] Brexit

Lincoln Imp · Aug 10, 2017

brighton fella said:
I agree with you 100% on that,, the figures are disgusting but we were talking about the EU and how the quicker we rid ourselves free from the place the better all round it will be for everyone.

I agree with you in objecting to the sense of entitlement displayed by powerful public servants wherever they are. It needs to be dealt with although not, I feel, by ridding ourselves of the monarchy, the local district council or our membership of the EU.

Berty23 · Aug 10, 2017

pastafarian said:
Phew only £252m, that’s a relief.
I thought for a minute we were talking about stupid amounts of money.

For that £3, we receive in return, free movement of EU citizens, law making being passed to Brussels and loss of primacy of our courts………what a crap deal, I want my money back.

We cant control EU immigration

Yes we can. This is the problem with the referendum. Free movement does not = right to settle. We chose not to enforce it and other countries were amazed.

Berty23 · Aug 10, 2017

Two Professors said:
Are you really thick,or just playing?If the EU gave us back 468 million for our 156,of course we'd stay.BUT THEY DON'T!

I suggest you are a fake professor! The whole point is that we are pay and are members of the single market. This saves us literally tens of billions every year. That is why everybody accepts that the economy is going to be hit. We don't just give money for the fun of it. Goodness me.

pastafarian · Aug 10, 2017

ManOfSussex said:
I saw a former Irish Junior Foreign Minister on Sky News expressing doubt how it can work after a hard Brexit a while back.

It must have been a while back when he said it as the scheme was extended at the end of last year with the new expiry date now oct 2021 and now includes extra countries. The type of brexit doesn’t come into it.
Probably a good reason why he is a junior minister .

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pressrelease-visa-waiver-programme

ManOfSussex said:
As for The UKBA, even a friend of mine who works for the UK Border Force at Gatwick still refers to them as UKBA. He intends to leave at the end of the year as many others are considering doing due to morale being so low and the comedy value of what they're being expected to do post 2019 not quite being so funny if you have to work for them. Always interesting to speak to him about things on the front-line though. He does know what he's talking about and knows how unprepared they are, like other agencies and departments are. When I asked him his view on 'Settled Status' he just laughed for example.

I would take what your friend says which a pinch of salt, he has already decided to leave the job as he doesn’t like it now or like the proposed work load in the future, he is bound to talk negatively about every aspect of it isn’t he, if not just to confirm to himself that he has made the right choice to pack it in. I hope he gets a new job soon and his vacant position is filled by a newbie, negative people in the workplace,who have already decided to leave because they don’t like the job do much damage with their attitude.

pastafarian · Aug 10, 2017

Berty23 said:
Yes we can. This is the problem with the referendum. Free movement does not = right to settle. We chose not to enforce it and other countries were amazed.

The right to settle issue is a separate issue regarding a tiny section of EU migrants after they have entered the country. it can be widely abused, as it is in other countries anyway.
All during the referendum, it was widely said my most remainers that the group you are referring to (unemployed EU citizens) is virtually non existent as most EU nationals work anyway.
If you think asking people if they have a job 3 months after they have entered the country anyway using their freedom of movement rights equates to having adequate border controls you are at the very least completely potty.

Herr Tubthumper · Aug 10, 2017

brighton fella said:
I agree with you 100% on that,, the figures are disgusting but we were talking about the EU and how the quicker we rid ourselves free from the place the better all round it will be for everyone.

Once you're out of the EU who will you blame then?

Berty23 · Aug 10, 2017

pastafarian said:
The right to settle issue is a separate issue regarding a tiny section of EU migrants after they have entered the country. it can be widely abused, as it is in other countries anyway.
All during the referendum, it was widely said my most remainers that the group you are referring to (unemployed EU citizens) is virtually non existent as most EU nationals work anyway.
If you think asking people if they have a job 3 months after they have entered the country anyway using their freedom of movement rights equates to having adequate border controls you are at the very least completely potty.

Remind me how many non eu migrants we have as well?

brighton fella · Aug 11, 2017

Lincoln Imp said:
I agree with you in objecting to the sense of entitlement displayed by powerful public servants wherever they are. It needs to be dealt with although not, I feel, by ridding ourselves of the monarchy, the local district council or our membership of the EU.

Unlike the vast majority who carry with them a flame for the royal family i don't had i of been asked that same question 5 years ago my answer would have been totally different for reasons i'd rather no go in to right now, today though and with a completely fresh mindset i would find it contradictory of me to complain about special privileges and the likes if at the same time i was seen to be carrying a torch for the monarchy.
If there is one thing iv'e learn't ,, no one is as important as anybody else.. hence my present feelings towards the monarchy and EU alike never in my lifetime will i be made to bow down to anyone their sh*t stinks the same as mine. :wink:

Berty23 · Aug 11, 2017

brighton fella said:
Unlike the vast majority who carry with them a flame for the royal family i don't had i of been asked that same question 5 years ago my answer would have been totally different for reasons i'd rather no go in to right now, today though and with a completely fresh mindset i would find it contradictory of me to complain about special privileges and the likes if at the same time i was seen to be carrying a torch for the monarchy.
If there is one thing iv'e learn't ,, no one is as important as anybody else.. hence my present feelings towards the monarchy and EU alike never in my lifetime will i be made to bow down to anyone their sh*t stinks the same as mine.

Your opening paragraph will apply to many millions about a different question they answered last year

Baldseagull · Aug 11, 2017

pastafarian said:
The right to settle issue is a separate issue regarding a tiny section of EU migrants after they have entered the country. it can be widely abused, as it is in other countries anyway.
All during the referendum, it was widely said my most remainers that the group you are referring to (unemployed EU citizens) is virtually non existent as most EU nationals work anyway.
If you think asking people if they have a job 3 months after they have entered the country anyway using their freedom of movement rights equates to having adequate border controls you are at the very least completely potty.

How long do you think people should be allowed to come for a holiday or visit then? We have people from lots of non EU countries allowed to come for up to 3 months without visa.

pastafarian · Aug 11, 2017

Berty23 said:
Remind me how many non eu migrants we have as well?

Remind me how the non EU migrant figure has any relevance to your ridiculous reasoning that checking EU nationals months after they have already entered the country anyway for work purposes justifies your belief that this equates to adequate border control. Crap effort at deflecting by the way

pastafarian · Aug 11, 2017

Baldseagull said:
How long do you think people should be allowed to come for a holiday or visit then? We have people from lots of non EU countries allowed to come for up to 3 months without visa.

They should be allowed to come here on holiday/visits etc for as long as the rules permit
I have zero problem with the 90 day visa free system for holidays, visiting family etc, or even the longer 180 day period that applies from some countries for that matter.
If people want to come here for extended holidays and spend their hard earned money, then good luck to them. Likewise since these arrangements are usually reciprocal its nice Brits can holiday abroad for extended periods visa free as well. I cant imagine any reasonable person in the immigration debate saying its something that should be stopped.
Is there some sort of reasoning behind asking this question? How long do you think non EU people should be allowed here for a holiday

Lincoln Imp · Aug 11, 2017

brighton fella said:
Unlike the vast majority who carry with them a flame for the royal family i don't had i of been asked that same question 5 years ago my answer would have been totally different for reasons i'd rather no go in to right now, today though and with a completely fresh mindset i would find it contradictory of me to complain about special privileges and the likes if at the same time i was seen to be carrying a torch for the monarchy.
If there is one thing iv'e learn't ,, no one is as important as anybody else.. hence my present feelings towards the monarchy and EU alike never in my lifetime will i be made to bow down to anyone their sh*t stinks the same as mine.

I have some problems with the Royal Family too but my point really was that it is better to fix these things than abolish them.

Berty23 · Aug 11, 2017

pastafarian said:
Remind me how the non EU migrant figure has any relevance to your ridiculous reasoning that checking EU nationals months after they have already entered the country anyway for work purposes justifies your belief that this equates to adequate border control. Crap effort at deflecting by the way

We could have controlled EU migration far better than we did. We are an island and it would have been simple to check who is coming in and out because we are not part of schengen. This would have reduced the so called pressure on schools and NHS because only contributors would be here. Obviously unemployment is very low and employment is at a record high though so actually these immigrants are nett contributors to the economy. But to argue we could not have reduced the number of seasonal workers is just wrong and shows how little some people know about the debate.

I can't see a government actually reducing immigration intentionally post Brexit because of the massive harm it will do to the economy. I don't just mean the NHS being screwed but I also mean food prices which will inevitably increase. As soon as we see increases in everyday essentials people will realise what a crap idea this is.

So far the only good thing I can see to come from Brexit is the inevitable drop in house prices but this will be coupled with a rise in interest rates so it won't get cheaper for people to live in a house anyway.

ManOfSussex · Aug 11, 2017

pastafarian said:
It must have been a while back when he said it as the scheme was extended at the end of last year with the new expiry date now oct 2021 and now includes extra countries. The type of brexit doesn’t come into it.
Probably a good reason why he is a junior minister .

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/pressrelease-visa-waiver-programme

I would take what your friend says which a pinch of salt, he has already decided to leave the job as he doesn’t like it now or like the proposed work load in the future, he is bound to talk negatively about every aspect of it isn’t he, if not just to confirm to himself that he has made the right choice to pack it in. I hope he gets a new job soon and his vacant position is filled by a newbie, negative people in the workplace,who have already decided to leave because they don’t like the job do much damage with their attitude.

The extension of the scheme was mentioned in the same breathe as was doubt as to how it will work in the future in the event of a hard Brexit. Obviously you know more than than a Fine Gael politician on the subject though.

I'm afraid I take everything you say with a pinch of salt, not my friends. :thumbsup:

The Clamp · Aug 11, 2017

beorhthelm said:
i know people like to keep harping back to the bus... but it is factually correct, we do send £350m to Eu each week. im well aware there's semantics and nuance to this, but it is a truth.

instead of bring up old political memes, why not address head on the accusations of corruption and undemocratic structure? Shirley its easy to show how both of these are untrue, right? just like the remain camp fought such a strong campaign on the virtues of membership.

This is why we think Leave voters are thick.

The Clamp · Aug 11, 2017

brighton fella said:
Maybe so, but the truth that the EU is undemocratic and corrupt still stands..that is until you can prove me otherwise.

Can't prove otherwise but your hero certainly takes advantage of it.

beorhthelm · Aug 11, 2017

The Clamp said:
This is why we think Leave voters are thick.

and the remainers continue to fail to defend the EU structures, practice and institutions. insult instead, and ignore arguments made. the bus didn't say the EU costs us 350m, and in its objection the UK Statistics Authority could only say 350m was "potentially misleading" (which it is), not that its false. i know i'm danceing on the head of a pin, however so many pages on there has still been nothing positive said about the EU. this is why you lost.

nicko31 · Aug 11, 2017

The Clamp said:
Can't prove otherwise but your hero certainly takes advantage of it.
View attachment 88101
View attachment 88102

Don't do what I do

Just do what I say

Its little surprise him and Trump get on so well, the guy is like an infected insect bite that won't heal

The Clamp · Aug 11, 2017

beorhthelm said:
and the remainers continue to fail to defend the EU structures, practice and institutions. insult instead, and ignore arguments made. the bus didn't say the EU costs us 350m, and in its objection the UK Statistics Authority could only say 350m was "potentially misleading" (which it is), not that its false. i know i'm danceing on the head of a pin, however so many pages on there has still been nothing positive said about the EU. this is why you lost.

The positives about the EU have been highlighted in great, great detail on here. I cannot help you if you choose to ignore or not believe them.

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