Considering switching to Linux....

KVLT · Jan 23, 2017

sir_gullahad said:
It's a reasonable question, however an all clear from AV software may give you a warm feeling inside but doesn't guarantee anything. It is very difficult/impossible to achieve certainty as you normally end up having to trust some third party whether it be a hardware or software provider.

In as far as anecdotal evidence counts for anything I have used Ubuntu exclusively for more than 3 years without becoming aware of anything associated with malware (fraud, id theft, performance issues etc.). I looked into AV software, but what little I found focused on providing alerts for Windows malware (ie for scanning on linux prior to use on Windows).

For anyone starting out I would echo what other have said with regard to using a Live DVD/USB to try things out first.

Cheers SG

We were obviously posting at about the same time so in response I refer you to part of what I just posted to happypig:

"I don't pretend for a moment that any AV software guarantees 100% protection - as this is clearly not the case, but it's more a question of mitigating the risk. Because Linux is clearly more secure that Windows, does that mean that an extra layer of potential protection should be ignored?"

Also, a large part of my concern in this matter is on behalf of my friend who (although I'm no expert) is less savvy than me.

I'm getting a definite sense that NSC's Linux crew are firmly in the 'No AV required' camp though.

Yes, I certainly plan to run it 'live' before committing to an install.

sir_gullahad · Jan 23, 2017

KVLT said:
Cheers SG

We were obviously posting at about the same time so in response I refer you to part of what I just posted to happypig:

"I don't pretend for a moment that any AV software guarantees 100% protection - as this is clearly not the case, but it's more a question of mitigating the risk. Because Linux is clearly more secure that Windows, does that mean that an extra layer of potential protection should be ignored?"

Also, a large part of my concern in this matter is on behalf of my friend who (although I'm no expert) is less savvy than me.

I'm getting a definite sense that NSC's Linux crew are firmly in the 'No AV required' camp though.

Yes, I certainly plan to run it 'live' before committing to an install.

Absolutely - the lack of an AV solution should not be ignored but weighed along with the the other considerations (pro- and anti-) in any decision to install. Different people will have differing priorities when it comes to cost, security, ease of use and the many other factors.

I got a family member using Ubuntu and have reaped the brownie points from resurrecting an otherwise useless laptop. However I now realise that I am very much on the hook for supporting it should anything go wrong, so beware...

Good luck.

KVLT · Jan 23, 2017

sir_gullahad said:
I got a family member using Ubuntu and have reaped the brownie points from resurrecting an otherwise useless laptop. However I now realise that I am very much on the hook for supporting it should anything go wrong, so beware...

Have no doubt, this is a path I have found myself walking down in the Windows domain for several friends for a good few years now.

So would you have any concerns about online shopping/banking and the like on a Linux system without AV? I don't bank online but my friend does.

1066familyman · Jan 23, 2017

On Mint there is a firewall that is easy to set up. The most popular advice seems to be just to use that and get out of the Windows mindset of AV protection. It is a leap of faith though, but from what you've posted so far you seem to be pretty savvy, re: cross platform infection being the biggest risk, so you should be fine. As others have said, no AV protection guarantees 100% safety anyway, even paid for ones.

boik · Jan 23, 2017

KVLT said:
Cheers SG

We were obviously posting at about the same time so in response I refer you to part of what I just posted to happypig:

"I don't pretend for a moment that any AV software guarantees 100% protection - as this is clearly not the case, but it's more a question of mitigating the risk. Because Linux is clearly more secure that Windows, does that mean that an extra layer of potential protection should be ignored?"

Also, a large part of my concern in this matter is on behalf of my friend who (although I'm no expert) is less savvy than me.

I'm getting a definite sense that NSC's Linux crew are firmly in the 'No AV required' camp though.

Yes, I certainly plan to run it 'live' before committing to an install.

I worked as a commercial Unix Systems Adminstrator on huge IBM Unix systems and we never ran AV software for the 15 years I was there.

sir_gullahad · Jan 23, 2017

KVLT said:
Have no doubt, this is a path I have found myself walking down in the Windows domain for several friends for a good few years now.

So would you have any concerns about online shopping/banking and the like on a Linux system without AV? I don't bank online but my friend does.

I bank and shop online with organisations I have a reasonable level of trust in (the likes of Amazon, Ebay, and above all the Albion!). Pretty much with the same level of paranoia as when I used Windows.

Deleted member 22389 · Jan 23, 2017

sir_gullahad said:
Absolutely - the lack of an AV solution should not be ignored but weighed along with the the other considerations (pro- and anti-) in any decision to install. Different people will have differing priorities when it comes to cost, security, ease of use and the many other factors.

I got a family member using Ubuntu and have reaped the brownie points from resurrecting an otherwise useless laptop. However I now realise that I am very much on the hook for supporting it should anything go wrong, so beware...

Good luck.

Linux tech support, been there and done that with family and avoid phone calls lol. I would say I have had a lot fewer problems than I did supporting Windows over the years. As for myself I'm using Peppermint 7, based off Ubuntu 14.04. I would never go back to Windows now, been using Linux for too long.

Deleted member 22389 · Jan 23, 2017

boik said:
I worked as a commercial Unix Systems Adminstrator on huge IBM Unix systems and we never ran AV software for the 15 years I was there.

You must be good with the command line then. Unix System Admin is a very good job. Might be wrong but there are more and more opportunities for Linux Admins these days.

boik · Jan 23, 2017

bashlsdir said:
You must be good with the command line then. Unix System Admin is a very good job. Might be wrong but there are more and more opportunities for Linux Admins these days.

Not too bad! Shell scripting was my area of expertise, but by the end it was all about building myriads of VMs. Always used to be AIX in the old days, but I introduced them to Linux, so that started to grow as well, especially as IBM were so pro Linux. Retired now, but have about a dozen or so linux boxes if you include RPis.

Deleted member 22389 · Jan 23, 2017

boik said:
Not too bad! Shell scripting was my area of expertise, but by the end it was all about building myriads of VMs. Always used to be AIX in the old days, but I introduced them to Linux, so that started to grow as well, especially as IBM were so pro Linux. Retired now, but have about a dozen or so linux boxes if you include RPis.

I never stop learning with Linux. I started using Linux in about 2000, bought some Mandrake disks. Linux fascinated me then and still fascinates me now. It's amazing how much it has matured over the years.

ozzygull · Jan 23, 2017

Ooh my favourite versions production unix was hpux and tru64 hate Solaris. Centos, red hat or Debian flavours such as ubuntu are also great. Now VMS, that was an operating system. The vi editor was a dream.

Hate most things about Windows.

Rebuilt an old laptop with ubuntu worked a treat. Never put AV software on a Linux box.

boik · Jan 24, 2017

ozzygull said:
Ooh my favourite versions production unix was hpux and tru64 hate Solaris. Centos, red hat or Debian flavours such as ubuntu are also great. Now VMS, that was an operating system. The vi editor was a dream.

Hate most things about Windows.

Rebuilt an old laptop with ubuntu worked a treat. Never put AV software on a Linux box.

Ha, I actually meant Virtual Machines on AIX . Never worked on VMS machines, but did work on MVS mainframes, and before that Burroughs mainframes which were amazing and well ahead of their time. Unfortunately, as the old maxim goes "no-one ever got sacked for choosing IBM".

ozzygull · Jan 24, 2017

boik said:
Ha, I actually meant Virtual Machines on AIX . Never worked on VMS machines, but did work on MVS mainframes, and before that Burroughs mainframes which were amazing and well ahead of their time. Unfortunately, as the old maxim goes "no-one ever got sacked for choosing IBM".

I am guessing the Alpha Chips that Tru64 and VMS ran on became too expensive. I have visualized a tru64 machine using a bit of software called Avanti it simulates the alpha chip and works quite well. We had some software that was still required but I could not get the hardware to support it anymore Visualization was the way to go.

I remember i had some work experience at South East electricity in Worthing, They had IBM mainframes, I remember the guy showing me them in an excitedly , but to me they looked liked filing cabinets with lights on. Now the printer they used for printing the bills was very impressive. Think that was about 1990 ish

The only thing I have learnt over time is the more I know the more I realise I don't know.

Anyway far to geeky, will now go back to thinking about tonight's game and dreaming we are about some super star forward.

boik · Jan 24, 2017

ozzygull said:
I am guessing the Alpha Chips that Tru64 and VMS ran on became too expensive. I have visualized a tru64 machine using a bit of software called Avanti it simulates the alpha chip and works quite well. We had some software that was still required but I could not get the hardware to support it anymore Visualization was the way to go.

I remember i had some work experience at South East electricity in Worthing, They had IBM mainframes, I remember the guy showing me them in an excitedly , but to me they looked liked filing cabinets with lights on. Now the printer they used for printing the bills was very impressive. Think that was about 1990 ish

The only thing I have learnt over time is the more I know the more I realise I don't know.

Anyway far to geeky, will now go back to thinking about tonight's game and dreaming we are about some super star forward.

Haven't got any pics of the IBM stuff, but here's the first Burroughs mainframe I worked on. From the left is a paper tape reader, then a punch card reader, then a Teletype ASR33 console (no visual terminals in those days) and then the Burroughs B2700 mainframe. It had 128kB of core memory (tiny doughnut shaped magnets on a grid of wires).

I'll stop now. UTA!!

Deleted member 22389 · Jan 24, 2017

boik said:
Haven't got any pics of the IBM stuff, but here's the first Burroughs mainframe I worked on. From the left is a paper tape reader, then a punch card reader, then a Teletype ASR33 console (no visual terminals in those days) and then the Burroughs B2700 mainframe. It had 128kB of core memory (tiny doughnut shaped magnets on a grid of wires).

I'll stop now. UTA!!
View attachment 81488

Excellent. I love retro computers. I bet that was an expensive piece of equipment at the time.

ozzygull · Jan 24, 2017

boik said:
Haven't got any pics of the IBM stuff, but here's the first Burroughs mainframe I worked on. From the left is a paper tape reader, then a punch card reader, then a Teletype ASR33 console (no visual terminals in those days) and then the Burroughs B2700 mainframe. It had 128kB of core memory (tiny doughnut shaped magnets on a grid of wires).

I'll stop now. UTA!!
View attachment 81488

It makes me laugh because back then we would have a terminal on the desk that talked to a remote server that we did not know where it was, to do all our work on. Now they call it "The cloud"

KVLT · Jan 26, 2017

Okay chaps, after a couple of days messing around with Live DVDs of ChaletOS, Xubuntu, Linux Lite and Lubuntu I've just taken the plunge and installed Lubuntu on my antiquated laptop. The install went fine apart from a sudden shutdown halfway though the post-install software update. Upon reboot the graphics/icons were a bit messed up, but I just ran the software updater again and upon reboot after that had finished all is okay again.

I've set up the firewall using the terminal, so that's all good.

I have a query regarding the check for additional drivers though. It says I have an unknown device that is not working (no hardware is connected except a USB mouse). There is a radio button which says "Using processor microcode firmware for intel CPU's from intel-microcode (proprietary)".

Any ideas? Cheers.

boik · Jan 26, 2017

KVLT said:
Okay chaps, after a couple of days messing around with Live DVDs of ChaletOS, Xubuntu, Linux Lite and Lubuntu I've just taken the plunge and installed Lubuntu on my antiquated laptop. The install went fine apart from a sudden shutdown halfway though the post-install software update. Upon reboot the graphics/icons were a bit messed up, but I just ran the software updater again and upon reboot after that had finished all is okay again.

I've set up the firewall using the terminal, so that's all good.

I have a query regarding the check for additional drivers though. It says I have an unknown device that is not working (no hardware is connected except a USB mouse). There is a radio button which says "Using processor microcode firmware for intel CPU's from intel-microcode (proprietary)".

Any ideas? Cheers.

Hmm, not sure exactly - there's some strange devices hidden away inside laptops. If everything that you need is working OK, the I would leave additional drivers alone. I have seen a message about Intel microcode before, but I think that I just ignored it and never had any problems. The only additional drivers that are usually required are for graphics cards and wireless cards, but I'm guessing that these are working OK?

KVLT · Jan 26, 2017

boik said:
Hmm, not sure exactly - there's some strange devices hidden away inside laptops. If everything that you need is working OK, the I would leave additional drivers alone. I have seen a message about Intel microcode before, but I think that I just ignored it and never had any problems. The only additional drivers that are usually required are for graphics cards and wireless cards, but I'm guessing that these are working OK?

Yes they seem to be. The only graphics issues I'm getting involve screen tearing. As I say I've tried 4 distros and they all suffer from a bit of tearing when I move tiled windows about (which is fine - I can live with that). But I have found there to be issues with tearing when watching video files on every distro bar Lubuntu. I did find that turning compositing off seemed to fix it on the others though (it appears Lubuntu has no compositing option available, which I presume is the way of things with LXDE).

I've been messing with this full Lubuntu install for the last hour and (hopefully) all is looking good. The laptop I'm using came shipped with Vista (1.5GHz 1GB) which it really struggled to run (would take about a minute to open a YouTube video, and that's after the 8-10 minute boot-up time), but Lubuntu seems to be running just fine on it.

I'm finding this venture into the world of Linux way more straight forward than I ever would have thought. I wish I'd dared to look into it sooner. :thumbsup:

Wardy's twin · Jan 28, 2017

ozzygull said:
Ooh my favourite versions production unix was hpux and tru64 hate Solaris. Centos, red hat or Debian flavours such as ubuntu are also great. Now VMS, that was an operating system. The vi editor was a dream.

Hate most things about Windows.

Rebuilt an old laptop with ubuntu worked a treat. Never put AV software on a Linux box.

Did you work for HP by any chance ?

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