[Football] Seagull Specials (train)

ditchy · Aug 13, 2018

Hi guys , i was having a discussion today with a fellow football fan (Chelsea) about why clubs do not run football train specials anymore ? , Yes i can see why they stopped re damage etc in the 70's 80,s , , but surely would it not be feasible for the club to try and run the odd away day to say Newcastle . A lot more fans could travel and surely the old bill would be better off policing . . The club could even sell match tickets and train as a package?
My question is though , why do they not ?

Perhaps some of the railway officienados such as Earnest could enlighten me .
If not , why dosent the club look into it as iam sure the uptake would be good .

AmexRuislip · Aug 13, 2018

From my memory, the specials were brilliant for me.
Jumping on the train at Eastbourne to the Goldstone experience, wonderful days

pasty · Aug 13, 2018

Could have done with one on Saturday. Journey back was Watford Junction -> Willesdon Junction, change for Clapham Junction. Couldn't get on first Brighton train as it was only 4 carriages, so got Horsham train to East Croydon. Changed to a stopping-bloody-everywhere Brighton train from there. Fortunately at Gatwick we spotted the Brighton train after the one we were on was non-stop so just jumped off in time to get that one, and overtook the one we were on at Haywards Heath.

dazzer6666 · Aug 13, 2018

ditchy said:
Hi guys , i was having a discussion today with a fellow football fan (Chelsea) about why clubs do not run football train specials anymore ? , Yes i can see why they stopped re damage etc in the 70's 80,s , , but surely would it not be feasible for the club to try and run the odd away day to say Newcastle . A lot more fans could travel and surely the old bill would be better off policing . . The club could even sell match tickets and train as a package?
My question is though , why do they not ?

Perhaps some of the railway officienados such as Earnest could enlighten me .
If not , why dosent the club look into it as iam sure the uptake would be good .

Too difficult to arrange perhaps since the breakup of BR into separate franchises ?

Cozzy · Aug 13, 2018

probably due to track over crowding ... sure most reports on the trains and tracks say there just isnt enough room for more trains as capacity is at maximum ... not a train user myself for many a moon so just what I have seen on news items

GT49er · Aug 13, 2018

ditchy said:
Hi guys , i was having a discussion today with a fellow football fan (Chelsea) about why clubs do not run football train specials anymore ? , Yes i can see why they stopped re damage etc in the 70's 80,s , , but surely would it not be feasible for the club to try and run the odd away day to say Newcastle . A lot more fans could travel and surely the old bill would be better off policing . . The club could even sell match tickets and train as a package?
My question is though , why do they not ?

Perhaps some of the railway officienados such as Earnest could enlighten me .
If not , why dosent the club look into it as iam sure the uptake would be good .

Great idea, and I'm sure many people would love it, but:

1). Shortage of trains; the TOCs these days just (barely) have enough rolling stock to operate the contracted service - and sometimes not even then. The long lines of spare coaches in sidings at West Worthing, Polegate, Lovers Walk and elsewhere are long gone. The club could buy its own train, but storage and maintenance would be big problems (a few 2nd.hand Pacers - the bus on rails things - might be viable for an extra match day shuttle service between Brighton and Lewes, but not for long distance).

2). Staffing - as with rolling stock, the TOCs employ the absolute minimum number of staff - barely enough to cover the regular services.

3). The unavailability of track to run on; back in the day, the railways were run on a pretty much 24/7 basis - even if passenger services had shut down for the night, freight trains were still running, plus far more overnight sleeper services than now. Now, however, large parts of the railways close down after the last train - even more so at weekends. Getting a train back from somewhere 'oop north' after a Sunday 4.00pm kick off might just not get all the way back! Plus, because of engineering works, the 'railway' between two places is often a rail replacement bus at weekends too - so no passage for the Brighton Football Special there either.

4). Added to that, the whole system is much less flexible for trains to pass and manoeuvre these days (for instance, I don't think there's a single set of points between Hove and Worthing) so the capacity for running extra trains often just isn't there (and in places like the Brighton main line and the WCML for example, there just isn't room for any more trains anyway!)

father_and_son · Aug 13, 2018

Cozzy said:
probably due to track over crowding ... sure most reports on the trains and tracks say there just isnt enough room for more trains as capacity is at maximum ... not a train user myself for many a moon so just what I have seen on news items

During the week I'm sure this would be true, but "congestion" drops at the weekend (hence the rolling stock being available for extra Brighton-Lewes trains on saturday afternoons).

However, you would be crossing over the areas of multiple franchises and even though the don't own the track I'm sure there would be naff all desire to enter into the logistical nightmare that would be required for, say, a Falmer to Newcastle service a couple of times a year.

Plus no driver, apparently, knows the route from Littlehampton to London any more (or so the timetable fiasco has revealed) so I'm damn sure that no driver knows the whole route to anywhere beyond London and therefore we have no chance of ever getting these trains back!

Why you couldn't have, say, a full length, non-stop service from Brighton to London to ease pressure on the normal saturday/sunday services when we are playing away up North at the weekend... not so sure!

Giraffe · Aug 13, 2018

pasty said:
Could have done with one on Saturday. Journey back was Watford Junction -> Willesdon Junction, change for Clapham Junction. Couldn't get on first Brighton train as it was only 4 carriages, so got Horsham train to East Croydon. Changed to a stopping-bloody-everywhere Brighton train from there. Fortunately at Gatwick we spotted the Brighton train after the one we were on was non-stop so just jumped off in time to get that one, and overtook the one we were on at Haywards Heath.

We said the same. Doesn't seem that long ago that they put on a direct special train from Watford to Brighton for us.

Poyningsgull · Aug 13, 2018

My experience was a disaster. Special train for the away cup tie at Forest which famously never made it. 13 hours we on that feckin train and I vowed never to use another one and I never have. Always remember loads of people piling off at some field near Kettering after we got stuck for several hours behind a broken down train. We listened to the game on someone's little radio and the train nearly tipped over when Wardy equalised. Lost 3-1 though.

ditchy · Aug 13, 2018

Cozzy said:
probably due to track over crowding ... sure most reports on the trains and tracks say there just isnt enough room for more trains as capacity is at maximum ... not a train user myself for many a moon so just what I have seen on news items

Understand this , during weekday , but weekends ?

ditchy · Aug 13, 2018

GT49er said:
Great idea, and I'm sure many people would love it, but:

1). Shortage of trains; the TOCs these days just (barely) have enough rolling stock to operate the contracted service - and sometimes not even then. The long lines of spare coaches in sidings at West Worthing, Polegate, Lovers Walk and elsewhere are long gone. The club could buy its own train, but storage and maintenance would be big problems (a few 2nd.hand Pacers - the bus on rails things - might be viable for an extra match day shuttle service between Brighton and Lewes, but not for long distance).

2). Staffing - as with rolling stock, the TOCs employ the absolute minimum number of staff - barely enough to cover the regular services.

3). The unavailability of track to run on; back in the day, the railways were run on a pretty much 24/7 basis - even if passenger services had shut down for the night, freight trains were still running, plus far more overnight sleeper services than now. Now, however, large parts of the railways close down after the last train - even more so at weekends. Getting a train back from somewhere 'oop north' after a Sunday 4.00pm kick off might just not get all the way back! Plus, because of engineering works, the 'railway' between two places is often a rail replacement bus at weekends too - so no passage for the Brighton Football Special there either.

4). Added to that, the whole system is much less flexible for trains to pass and manoeuvre these days (for instance, I don't think there's a single set of points between Hove and Worthing) so the capacity for running extra trains often just isn't there (and in places like the Brighton main line and the WCML for example, there just isn't room for any more trains anyway!)

What you have highlighted is what i basically thought and such a shanme for a so called 21st century country .
If the willingness was there from the franchises i am sure it could happen , but i think they are happy to fleece the commuter and take their government subsidy .

Thunder Bolt · Aug 13, 2018

father_and_son said:
During the week I'm sure this would be true, but "congestion" drops at the weekend (hence the rolling stock being available for extra Brighton-Lewes trains on saturday afternoons).

However, you would be crossing over the areas of multiple franchises and even though the don't own the track I'm sure there would be naff all desire to enter into the logistical nightmare that would be required for, say, a Falmer to Newcastle service a couple of times a year.

Plus no driver, apparently, knows the route from Littlehampton to London any more (or so the timetable fiasco has revealed) so I'm damn sure that no driver knows the whole route to anywhere beyond London and therefore we have no chance of ever getting these trains back!

Why you couldn't have, say, a full length, non-stop service from Brighton to London to ease pressure on the normal saturday/sunday services when we are playing away up North at the weekend... not so sure!

We did it for the Millenium in 2004. We left Hove station at 7.30, passing Southampton, Bristol and to Cardiff. It was supposed to be dry but was awash with booze on the way back, as some fans had just called into a convenient off licence near the station.

Thunder Bolt · Aug 13, 2018

Giraffe said:
We said the same. Doesn't seem that long ago that they put on a direct special train from Watford to Brighton for us.

Palace and Millwall have both had special trains from the Amex in recent years.

father_and_son · Aug 13, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
We did it for the Millenium in 2004. We left Hove station at 7.30, passing Southampton, Bristol and to Cardiff. It was supposed to be dry but was awash with booze on the way back, as some fans had just called into a convenient off licence near the station.

Isn't that a GWR route anyway..? (sure there are a couple of Brighton to S Wales via Bristol trains every day). So there would have been drivers with a vague idea of which direction Wales is, making it possible. Pretty sure they are now all "geographically challenged" because isn't "drivers don't know the routes" why SASTA and GoFish! have failed quite so badly since May.

father_and_son · Aug 13, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
Palace and Millwall have both had special trains from the Amex in recent years.

For the protection of normal people :wink:

Thunder Bolt · Aug 13, 2018

father_and_son said:
Isn't that a GWR route anyway..? (sure there are a couple of Brighton to S Wales via Bristol trains every day). So there would have been drivers with a vague idea of which direction Wales is, making it possible. Pretty sure they are now all "geographically challenged" because isn't "drivers don't know the routes" why SASTA and GoFish! have failed quite so badly since May.

You're probably right, although I thought the GWR trains went to Malvern rather than South Wales.

Ernest · Aug 13, 2018

No reason not to run one, shame someone didn't ask Barber last week at the forum. Many clubs still have them

Blackadder · Aug 13, 2018

pasty said:
Could have done with one on Saturday. Journey back was Watford Junction -> Willesdon Junction, change for Clapham Junction. Couldn't get on first Brighton train as it was only 4 carriages, so got Horsham train to East Croydon. Changed to a stopping-bloody-everywhere Brighton train from there. Fortunately at Gatwick we spotted the Brighton train after the one we were on was non-stop so just jumped off in time to get that one, and overtook the one we were on at Haywards Heath.

We used Thameslink to St Pancras, then Euston to Watford Junction (one stop) both ways. Would definitely go that way again.

Gazwag · Aug 13, 2018

pasty said:
Could have done with one on Saturday. Journey back was Watford Junction -> Willesdon Junction, change for Clapham Junction. Couldn't get on first Brighton train as it was only 4 carriages, so got Horsham train to East Croydon. Changed to a stopping-bloody-everywhere Brighton train from there. Fortunately at Gatwick we spotted the Brighton train after the one we were on was non-stop so just jumped off in time to get that one, and overtook the one we were on at Haywards Heath.

I thought it was really simply on Saturday going via Euston, two minutes wait at Euston on the way and similar wait at Watford for the trip back, one of the quickest and easiest away trips around with hardly any time waiting on stations.

Blackadder · Aug 13, 2018

I recall paying the princely sum of £4.00 (could have been £4.50) for York City return, and we won 1-0.

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