Southern - Now Dangerous

Westdene Seagull · Jul 31, 2017

The Large One said:
There may well be laws in place to protect whistleblowers, but the reality is individuals, irrespective of union protection, would still be sacked, and maybe even prosecuted.

Besides, back in the real world, who do they blow to? Their bosses? The government? The media? As if that isn't already happening. This is a government-sponsored dispute. No point in doing it to the union either as they already know, and it's part of the issues of the industrial action. No point in 'blowing' to the ABC as it's part of their ongoing challenge to the government.

They could of course just get out of their cabs and just do it. So it makes the train slightly late ..... and makes Southern's figures look bad .... so what ? Strange they are prepared to disrupt the service defending the 'safety' of their customers but won't do the same to defend the rights of their less abled customers.

ditchy · Jul 31, 2017

The Large One said:
You can, though it's not particularly dignified for that person to carry someone on in that manner. Some may well find it too undignified.

Plus a powerchair is around 150kg.

I appreciate it will show up the train companies as even more appalling far more publicly, but it depends on the individual in question.

Simple way would be to build one permanent ramp on each station , railed off so no one trips on it ,heaven forbid health and safety . Trains pull up accurately enough to stop exactly at these points , person disembarks simples !

The Large One · Jul 31, 2017

Westdene Seagull said:
They could of course just get out of their cabs and just do it. So it makes the train slightly late ..... and makes Southern's figures look bad .... so what ? Strange they are prepared to disrupt the service defending the 'safety' of their customers but won't do the same to defend the rights of their less abled customers.

The disabled access issue isn't part of official dispute (though it is on the agenda especially on the part of the customers). If a specific issue isn't officially part of the dispute, you can't take industrial action against it. If they go against specific instructions of the company they get disciplined and / or fired.

Simple as that. Therefore, they have to adhere to the company's instructions.

This isn't something they've been given a choice over. Seeing as the High Court doesn't see disabled access as an equality issue (as per the recent JR), Southern will continue to carry on as they (rather than the disabled customers) see fit.

Ernest · Jul 31, 2017

Ninja Elephant said:
Of course I'm not sure, it's a hypothetical situation but even so - isn't it better to be a few minutes late than to leave disabled people behind? I know everyone is in a mad rush to get everywhere immediately but at what cost? You never know when you yourself might become the person who needs the additional assistance and maybe you'd feel differently.

I would never question your knowledge on this subject, and we're 100% in agreement they should just have the appropriate levels of staff. Why would it take 30 minutes to shut down the cab? Surely it's just a case of getting out and locking it so nobody else can access it? Why does that take 30 minutes?

They have to shut down the cab, secure it, let the signalman know they are leaving the cab, then they can go and try and find a ramp , assist the person needing it, go back to the cab, reboot all the systems and then let the signal man know they're ready to go. Whilst hundreds on the train sit and fume as nobody has made an announcement and thousands on trains queued up behind sit and fume and all for the sake of not having a second person on each train or have station staff on duty.

Westdene Seagull · Jul 31, 2017

The Large One said:
The disabled access issue isn't part of official dispute

Yes it is - there's been a number of statements from the Unions that DOO trains mean disabled people not being able to catch trains. It wouldn't take a lot of effort for the drivers to actually get out their cabs and make the point. By not doing so they make it clear that the dispute is nothing to do with customer safety and convenience and everything to do with saving jobs ( not that is a bad thing - they just need to be honest ).

Westdene Seagull · Jul 31, 2017

Ernest said:
They have to shut down the cab, secure it, let the signalman know they are leaving the cab, then they can go and try and find a ramp , assist the person needing it, go back to the cab, reboot all the systems and then let the signal man know they're ready to go. Whilst hundreds on the train sit and fume as nobody has made an announcement and thousands on trains queued up behind sit and fume and all for the sake of not having a second person on each train or have station staff on duty.

I'm sure those hundreds of people on the train would rather get to where they are going albeit late. At the moment with the industrial action as a customer, you have no way of knowing if you'll actually get to your destination.

The Large One · Jul 31, 2017

Westdene Seagull said:
Yes it is - there's been a number of statements from the Unions that DOO trains mean disabled people not being able to catch trains. It wouldn't take a lot of effort for the drivers to actually get out their cabs and make the point. By not doing so they make it clear that the dispute is nothing to do with customer safety and convenience and everything to do with saving jobs ( not that is a bad thing - they just need to be honest ).

The disabled issue is a bi-product of DOO. Not part of the dispute itself.

You're still missing the point. They cannot go against the company instructions without there being some kind of disciplinary procedure against an individual. If the unions unilaterally told their members to help the disabled passengers on board (something they have no power to do) in direct contravention of Southern's instructions, they (Southern) would sue the unions. You're creating your own version of the dispute by stating that they can just ignore the instructions.

As for the result of a driver being able to go and help, see Ernest's post above.

The Large One · Jul 31, 2017

Westdene Seagull said:
I'm sure those hundreds of people on the train would rather get to where they are going albeit late. At the moment with the industrial action as a customer, you have no way of knowing if you'll actually get to your destination.

Such lateness in proceeding trains ultimately leads to more arbitrary cancellations. Everything has a knock-on effect.

BTW - what industrial action 'at the moment'...?

pearl · Jul 31, 2017

I've just had ticket reimbursed Southampton to Brighton because I was delayed over an hour, nice, but I would much rather the ongoing dispute was sorted

kevo · Jul 31, 2017

Peter Grummit said:
I too got on a train to go to the Test on Saturday. At Lewes, no seats. An hour's journey to London, standing. On a Saturday. At LGW, tens of air passengers with luggage attempt to cram on. None of whom move down the carriage. Carnage. Not a 'health and safety' decision in sight. Couldn't run a chicken.

PG

I've noticed this a lot recently - loads more passengers travelling to and from Gatwick on Southern trains yet the Gatwick Express often runs half empty. Is it because Gatwick Express is far more expensive, so everyone just uses the ordinary trains instead?

Tom Hark Preston Park · Jul 31, 2017

Westdene Seagull said:
They could of course just get out of their cabs and just do it. So it makes the train slightly late ..... and makes Southern's figures look bad .... so what ? Strange they are prepared to disrupt the service defending the 'safety' of their customers but won't do the same to defend the rights of their less abled customers.

Sorry, but that's severely sloppy thinking. With respect, you've gone wrong.

rippleman · Jul 31, 2017

The Large One said:
They would need access to get the ramp, which is padlocked on the platform.

Not even every member of staff is allowed to use the ramp (though of course platform staff will be), as the need to have their health & safety training first in order to use it.

Really? Then what about the health & safety of the other passengers that it has been suggested get the wheelchairs off the train? I have twice had to assist wheelchairs off the trains after evening games, at Shoreham and at Worthing. The platform staff at Worthing can be seen having it on their toes at just the time the first after match train comes in.

Training to use a ramp? ROFL What about training to carry a wheelchair huh?

Tom Hark Preston Park · Jul 31, 2017

rippleman said:
Really? Then what about the health & safety of the other passengers that it has been suggested get the wheelchairs off the train? I have twice had to assist wheelchairs off the trains after evening games, at Shoreham and at Worthing.

Sorry, no offence intended whatsoever, but getting wheelchairs off and on a train should under no circumstances be left to the good intentions of potentially pissed-up attendees of an evening football game. The very idea is ridiculous.

seagulls4ever · Jul 31, 2017

The whole company is a shambles. I've had numerous bad experiences with on-board supervisors or platform staff over the last month because of a lack of common sense and/or customer service.

Most days I get an evening/night train from Falmer and have to make a connection at Brighton. It takes me a little under 10 minutes to get to the station - and I always check the train times just before I leave to make sure my train is running on time. By the time I get to the station, it's often the case that the train is delayed by a couple of minutes. Then the delay creeps up to three or four minutes. My changeover window at Falmer is often 4-6 minutes. Presumably because of the short delay, the train misses its window to go into Brighton station and stops outside the station for a couple of minutes whilst it waits for a free track. By the time I get into Brighton, the train has already gone or is just leaving, and I miss my connection. What is causing these constant delays so soon before the train arrives? It's not unusual for me to get caught out multiple times a week.

I've come to expect there to be problems with the trains every day, even when there are no strikes. That's a pretty bad mentality Southern have given me.

Cowfold Seagull · Jul 31, 2017

The Clamp said:
Sounds about right. Drivers have been staging this childish little protests off and on, like the driver who shockingly refused to help the disabled person on to the train to make his point.
To make no announcement whatsoever is pathetic. Sums up Southern and it's crackpot staff. Useless.

With the seemingly never ending industrial dispute, the gulf between management and train crews, seems to reached the level where many drivers seemingly couldn't care less, when it comes to customer awareness.

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Southern - Now Dangerous

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