[Misc] Here We Go Again - Breaking News Florida Shooting At High School

A1X said:

I'd have more respect for them if they just admitted that owning guns is more important to them than their kids not being shot dead.

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Tyrone Biggums said:

Not always so.

Egyptian Army removed the Muslim Brotherhood because of what that party represented.

Other nations have also had coups and returned to democracy.

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Blackadder said:

....But not buy an alcoholic drink!!!

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seagulls4ever said:

Can 10/50 states really be defined as 'plenty'?

Using the the narrow definition of 'four or more killed', according to the page sourced below, 40 states have experienced a mass shooting event, including Hawaii. I think using a broader definition, probably every state has.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/mass-shootings-in-america/

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When economist Richard Florida took a look at gun deaths and other social indicators, he found that higher populations, more stress, more immigrants, and more mental illness didn’t correlate with more gun deaths. But he did find one telling correlation: States with tighter gun control laws have fewer gun-related deaths. (Read more at Florida’s “The Geography of Gun Deaths.”)

This is backed by other research: A 2016 review of 130 studies in 10 countries, published in Epidemiologic Reviews, found that new legal restrictions on owning and purchasing guns tended to be followed by a drop in gun violence — a strong indicator that restricting access to guns can save lives.

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Tyrone Biggums said:

Not always so.

Egyptian Army removed the Muslim Brotherhood because of what that party represented.

Other nations have also had coups and returned to democracy.

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Voroshilov said:

The coup in Egypt happened because the muslim brotherhood were threating the power and wealth of the military. It was nothing to do with protecting democracy.

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Tyrone Biggums said:

The link you provided is interesting, mainly because it highlights the ten states where no mass shootings have occurred.

If you look at the states not linked to any mass shootings:

1. Wyoming
Wyoming has the highest number of registered guns per capita of any state in America. For every 1,000 residents, there are 195.7 guns, about three times the rate of second-place D.C. That's 114,052 registered firearms in a state with a population of only 582,658 people.

4. New Mexico
New Mexico comes in at number four, with 40.5 guns for every 1,000 residents. That's 84,471 registered firearms among 2,085,287 people.

6. Idaho
Idaho comes in at number six, with 24.2 guns for every 1,000 residents. That's 39,019 registered firearms among 1,612,136 people.


So the no.1 gun owning state in the US has never had a mass shooting, in fact 3 out of the top 6 gun owning states never have.

Does that not suggest that perhaps its a states to state thing when it comes to responsible gun owners and that states gun culture that can impact such incidents?

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BadFish said:

I was wondering about the correlation between gun restrictions and gun deaths. I don't think anyone is suggesting the US ban guns or stop your average Jo from owning them. the discussion needs to be about greater restrictions on who owns them.

I found this about Richard Florida that seems to be pretty well cited (although i confess i haven't checked them all as yet).



Of course this is all academic as the NRA will argue restrictions. Even though polls suggest that most of their members support it - 74% according to this article. http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...ra-members-back-background-checks-all-gun-pu/

The question here appears to me to be: Who are the NRA representing when they continue to lobby for guns to be sold with very limited restrictions?

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Tyrone Biggums said:

https://www.deseretnews.com/top/1428/0/10-states-with-the-strictest-gun-laws.html

That list suggests there's no correlation between strict gun laws and fewer gun deaths.

California has the strictest gun laws in the US yet has a huge amount of mass shootings and gun deaths compared to Wyoming that has more guns per head of population and yet no mass shootings.

Maybe the NRA are representing the likes of the people of Wyoming?

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seagulls4ever said:

Remember, that's using an extremely narrow definition, which can be down to chance (the amount of people who are shot who are killed). Using a broader definition (four or more killed or injured), just looking at 2017, nearly every state experienced a mass shooting event. The mass shootings are not due to the guns themselves, but due to a mindset (and giving headline media coverage to these events doesn't help, as that's what the perpetrators want), which is facilitated by the availability of guns. Gun crime in general in the US is a serious problem, whatever form it takes. I read that people believe that the reason people believe mass shootings have not occurred in Wyoming is because it has the smallest population, and so the rural lifestyle doesn't lend itself to mass shooting type events. But I don't know the intricacies of it all, I'm not an expert. I certainly think gun culture has a big role to play, I agree with that. But the widespread availability and 'right to bear arms' seems to me to be a big factor in that gun culture, irrespective of state. Guns are weapons of death - they are designed to kill - so I feel uncomfortable with their ownership being considered normal.

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BadFish said:

I cannot make head nor tail of your post, your link doesn't include any stats about California's mass shootings and gun deaths and you seem to be conflating two different ideas for your comparison i.e. strict gun laws in California and number of guns per head in Wyoming.

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Tyrone Biggums said:

The thing people won't mention for fear of being labelled racist is that wherever there is a higher black population the incidents of general gun deaths is far higher unfortunately.

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-by-raceethnicity/

This list shows the often vast difference between gun victims based on race based on figures in 2015.

This is why when people make suggestions to limit deaths they are missing the point. Banning assault rifles really won't impact the number of deaths by much at all given the majority of deaths are by basic hand guns.

It's just an assault rifle makes a story seem so much more scary to non-gun people.

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Tyrone Biggums said:

The thing people won't mention for fear of being labelled racist is that wherever there is a higher black population the incidents of general gun deaths is far higher unfortunately.

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-by-raceethnicity/

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Tyrone Biggums said:

The link you provided is interesting, mainly because it highlights the ten states where no mass shootings have occurred.

If you look at the states not linked to any mass shootings:

1. Wyoming
Wyoming has the highest number of registered guns per capita of any state in America. For every 1,000 residents, there are 195.7 guns, about three times the rate of second-place D.C. That's 114,052 registered firearms in a state with a population of only 582,658 people.

4. New Mexico
New Mexico comes in at number four, with 40.5 guns for every 1,000 residents. That's 84,471 registered firearms among 2,085,287 people.

6. Idaho
Idaho comes in at number six, with 24.2 guns for every 1,000 residents. That's 39,019 registered firearms among 1,612,136 people.


So the no.1 gun owning state in the US has never had a mass shooting, in fact 3 out of the top 6 gun owning states never have.

Does that not suggest that perhaps its a states to state thing when it comes to responsible gun owners and that states gun culture that can impact such incidents?

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Not Andy Naylor said:

But these are ten of the most thinly-populated states, so the odds against mass shootings must be proportionately higher.

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Tyrone Biggums said:

The link to US mass killings was on another posters link.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/mass-shootings-in-america/


The bottom line is having a lot of guns in a population of people no matter how big or small will still throw up similar death statistics by head of population % if the cultures are the same.

Obviously the people of Wyoming are a much higher quality of people than those in California.

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Tyrone Biggums said:

There's plenty of states in the US that have never had a mass shooting.

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Not Andy Naylor said:

But these are ten of the most thinly-populated states, so the odds against mass shootings must be proportionately higher.

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Tyrone Biggums said:

Why?

Per head of population figures consider such things. It factors in smaller vs larger to break it down as a %.

It's not like a state with 2 million people can't have a building with 20 people in it same as state with 20 million people having a room with 20 people in it.

Mass shootings rely more on a captive audience than anything. No matter how small or big the state those places exist everywhere.

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