Ambition and expectation

Goring Gull · Oct 20, 2014

Ok we are currently on a poor run and i think a relegation battle does beckon however when i started watching teh Albion in teh late 80's this was an average season for the lower championship in general so are we just settling at our natural level and people are making out it's worse than it actually is?

I for one think teh run of the last two seasons especially that one with Poyet when i certainley believed we could win the playoffs and make the promised land of week in week out spankings that would have been awaiting us in the Premier league and that since we appear to have gone backwards since (last season the playoffs was one hell of a slice of luck and never realsitic were going to win them. Unfortunately the expectation this built has resulted in overeaction and disapiontment that the final jump have not been made as i believe mant thought it would after the 4th place finish.

I suppose my point is are we where we will naturally sit will attendance drop to around 18k next season etc This is a realisitic view point as much as we dream of the premier league we have only spent a few seasons in the top flight of English football at least teh club in financially well run well as much as it can be in the currect climate. Enjoy the football, the days ou, the beer for what they are because i reckon alot of us put up with season after season of dross and apart from sport what else would you spend say £30 plus too get very little value for money. You wouldn't spend that week in week out two hours of total rubbish on anything else it's what being a football supporter of any team other than say 6 -7 teams is about.

Lethargic · Oct 20, 2014

It's a fair point and puts some perspective on the situation BUT...

The club choose to open pandora box and raise the expectation levels when they invested all the money in the infrastrasture, created the appalling Premier League Ready mantra and raised prices to Premier League levels. We have to accept that times have moved on and we are no longer scrapping around at Withdean we have been turned into a corporate machine now (not by the fans) and with that comes a new level of expectation. An example being the overhyped release of the 3rd shirt at half time on Saturday.

It is the club that raised the expectations and the fans are simply expecting them to deliver on their promises we are now customers not fans and we want value on our purchase(aweful way of saying it but again we are following the clubs lead). On a slight tangent we are not the only club going down this path and with the likes of MK Dongs franchised football is a genuine possibility in the future, with fans/customers of the future openly changing allegiences.

Mellotron · Oct 20, 2014

Agree with [MENTION=5265]Lethargic[/MENTION] - the club have hyped up their ambition massively to draw fans in. They have all but promised that we'd be in the Prem at some point soon.

Henfield One · Oct 20, 2014

Lethargic said:
It's a fair point and puts some perspective on the situation BUT...

The club choose to open pandora box and raise the expectation levels when they invested all the money in the infrastrasture, created the appalling Premier League Ready mantra and raised prices to Premier League levels. We have to accept that times have moved on and we are no longer scrapping around at Withdean we have been turned into a corporate machine now (not by the fans) and with that comes a new level of expectation. An example being the overhyped release of the 3rd shirt at half time on Saturday.

It is the club that raised the expectations and the fans are simply expecting them to deliver on their promises we are now customers not fans and we want value on our purchase(aweful way of saying it but again we are following the clubs lead). On a slight tangent we are not the only club going down this path and with the likes of MK Dongs franchised football is a genuine possibility in the future, with fans/customers of the future openly changing allegiences.

Spot on - my point exactly. The business plan sets the Premier League as the target, building infrastructure along the way. That's absolutely fine and praiseworthy (although I'm not a PL fan and don't have such lofty expectations). Where it goes pear shaped, is not looking in any way that progress on the pitch towards that target has been made since Poyet left. And we the customers (!) are more than bewildered.

Hence my call to the phone-in.

Moshe Gariani · Oct 20, 2014

Henfield One said:
Spot on - my point exactly. The business plan sets the Premier League as the target, building infrastructure along the way. That's absolutely fine and praiseworthy (although I'm not a PL fan and don't have such lofty expectations). Where it goes pear shaped, is not looking in any way that progress on the pitch towards that target has been made since Poyet left. And we the customers (!) are more than bewildered.

Hence my call to the phone-in.

Hopelessly short-term in outlook and failing to give due credit to Tony Bloom and his management team.

We have reached the last two Championship play-offs.

We have a Category One development system in place (our U18s beat CHELSEA this weekend for goodness sake...!!!).

We WILL reach the Premier League sooner or later.

Keep the faith and enjoy being an Albion fan.

carteater · Oct 20, 2014

Clubs ambition: Promotion
Clubs Expectation: To obey FFP rules at whatever cost

:moo:

Brovion · Oct 20, 2014

Lethargic said:
It's a fair point and puts some perspective on the situation BUT...

The club choose to open pandora box and raise the expectation levels when they invested all the money in the infrastrasture, created the appalling Premier League Ready mantra and raised prices to Premier League levels. We have to accept that times have moved on and we are no longer scrapping around at Withdean we have been turned into a corporate machine now (not by the fans) and with that comes a new level of expectation. An example being the overhyped release of the 3rd shirt at half time on Saturday.

It is the club that raised the expectations and the fans are simply expecting them to deliver on their promises we are now customers not fans and we want value on our purchase(aweful way of saying it but again we are following the clubs lead). On a slight tangent we are not the only club going down this path and with the likes of MK Dongs franchised football is a genuine possibility in the future, with fans/customers of the future openly changing allegiences.

Spot on. I still feel that some fans have unrealistic expectations and think that every season should be a case of 'onward and upward', (and ultimately they're the ones who push clubs into financial problems) but I do feel that by over-hyping everything the club have made a rod for their own backs. In the old days (which I appreciate are long gone) you went to 'the match' on a Saturday, paid the admission with the coins in your pocket, watched the football and went home. If Brighton won, great, if they didn't, well it was disappointing but there you go. Now the whole 'experience' has been hyped (and priced) well beyond all that and it does have repercussions.

As a part-time fan I can sum up my expectations thus: If I'm paying £4.20 for a pint of beer (on top of my match ticket and booking fee of about £30) I expect to be watching a team in the top six. Not 'want' or 'hope'. Expect.

Yes, I'm well aware of how stupid that sounds, especially to STHs, but for me attending football is now like going to a show. For the money I pay I expect a decent return, and watching a poor team lose isn't what I want.

Thunder Bolt · Oct 20, 2014

Mellotron said:
Agree with [MENTION=5265]Lethargic[/MENTION] - the club have hyped up their ambition massively to draw fans in. They have all but promised that we'd be in the Prem at some point soon.

I hate the One Club, One Ambition logo. It sounds like a politicians promise, and we know how they turn out.

Titanic · Oct 20, 2014

Henfield One said:
Spot on - my point exactly. The business plan sets the Premier League as the target, building infrastructure along the way. That's absolutely fine and praiseworthy (although I'm not a PL fan and don't have such lofty expectations). Where it goes pear shaped, is not looking in any way that progress on the pitch towards that target has been made since Poyet left. And we the customers (!) are more than bewildered.

Hence my call to the phone-in.

If you are not a PL fan, shouldn't you be pretty happy with entertaining football and (at least for the moment) little sign of promotion prospects?

MattBackHome · Oct 20, 2014

Henfield One said:
Spot on - my point exactly. The business plan sets the Premier League as the target, building infrastructure along the way. That's absolutely fine and praiseworthy (although I'm not a PL fan and don't have such lofty expectations). Where it goes pear shaped, is not looking in any way that progress on the pitch towards that target has been made since Poyet left. And we the customers (!) are more than bewildered.

Hence my call to the phone-in.

See @Moshe Gariani's reply.

I'm not bewildered. Personally I think that the errors made with the signings of Stockdale (dodgy, getting dodgier) and Baldock (watch this space) are the fundamental reason we're struggling. But what alternatives were there?*

You're fully aware of the financial constraints in which we are expected to work and the limitations this puts on player recruitment, and your answer is to gamble heavier. The club have been absolutely clear about exactly why this can't, shouldn't and won't happen.

I suspect that there is a hidden subtext driving some of the criticisms of the past couple of days and a few people have been waiting for a string of bad results to start bashing the club.

*("Why didn't we look at Chris Wood on loan" has been the mantra of the disaffected over the past few weeks. Well how do you know we didn't?)

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 20, 2014

Mellotron said:
Agree with [MENTION=5265]Lethargic[/MENTION] - the club have hyped up their ambition massively to draw fans in. They have all but promised that we'd be in the Prem at some point soon.

I agree with this, mainly down to the daft Premier League Ready nonsense. Expect a "War and Peace" length defence of this from Barber any minute.

Beach Hut · Oct 20, 2014

Thunder Bolt said:
I hate the One Club, One Ambition logo. It sounds like a politicians promise, and we know how they turn out.

It is an appalling mantra in my view and given the current situation quite crass

Brovion · Oct 20, 2014

Moshe Gariani said:
Hopelessly short-term in outlook and failing to give due credit to Tony Bloom and his management team.

We have reached the last two Championship play-offs.

We have a Category One development system in place (our U18s beat CHELSEA this weekend for goodness sake...!!!).

We WILL reach the Premier League sooner or later.

Keep the faith and enjoy being an Albion fan.

I understand what you're saying, but the short-term matters as well. Saying 'jam tomorrow' doesn't help manage the club-enhanced expectations, people are entitled to ask 'WHEN will all this happen?' You sound a bit like an evangelist preacher telling us we WILL reach the promised land if we only Believe.

father_and_son · Oct 20, 2014

Brovion said:
Spot on. I still feel that some fans have unrealistic expectations and think that every season should be a case of 'onward and upward', (and ultimately they're the ones who push clubs into financial problems) but I do feel that by over-hyping everything the club have made a rod for their own backs. In the old days (which I appreciate are long gone) you went to 'the match' on a Saturday, paid the admission with the coins in your pocket, watched the football and went home. If Brighton won, great, if they didn't, well it was disappointing but there you go. Now the whole 'experience' has been hyped (and priced) well beyond all that and it does have repercussions.

As a part-time fan I can sum up my expectations thus: If I'm paying £4.20 for a pint of beer (on top of my match ticket and booking fee of about £30) I expect to be watching a team in the top six. Not 'want' or 'hope'. Expect.

Yes, I'm well aware of how stupid that sounds, especially to STHs, but for me attending football is now like going to a show. For the money I pay I expect a decent return, and watching a poor team lose isn't what I want.

Yep. The one correct statement in here is that it does sound stupid to a STH.

If you want a stage-managed positive result week-in week-out for your money then, may I suggest, wrestling be your chosen viewing, because that's the only "entertainment" (sport) where you will see the good guys triumph every time.

I am a season ticket holder and so, by your own terminology, I guess that makes me a full-time fan. But the key word isn't "full" or "part" - its fan. I will support this team on the way up and I will support them on the way down. I will be crest-fallen when we lose and euphoric when we win but I don't go for the result, I go because I am a fan.

If the result really is the be-all and end-all to you then you are at best a football customer, at worst a football consumer, but you are not a fan. Don't get me wrong here. You are welcome to come and spend your money at the Amex, just like the away fans, the JCLs and the plastics and any other derogatory demographic that you care to mention - I will welcome you in the seat next to me. But in reality, given your comments above, I'm pretty sure you would be happier declaring your self to be a "fan" of one of the top 5 PL clubs, watch your team on Sky and be safe in the knowledge that a "bad season" means Europa and not Champions league because relegation and promotion are problems left to the disappointing world beneath you.

Brovion · Oct 20, 2014

father_and_son said:
Yep. The one correct statement in here is that it does sound stupid to a STH.

If you want a stage-managed positive result week-in week-out for your money then, may I suggest, wrestling be your chosen viewing, because that's the only "entertainment" (sport) where you will see the good guys triumph every time.

I am a season ticket holder and so, by your own terminology, I guess that makes me a full-time fan. But the key word isn't "full" or "part" - its fan. I will support this team on the way up and I will support them on the way down. I will be crest-fallen when we lose and euphoric when we win but I don't go for the result, I go because I am a fan.

If the result really is the be-all and end-all to you then you are at best a football customer, at worst a football consumer, but you are not a fan. Don't get me wrong here. You are welcome to come and spend your money at the Amex, just like the away fans, the JCLs and the plastics and any other derogatory demographic that you care to mention - I will welcome you in the seat next to me. But in reality, given your comments above, I'm pretty sure you would be happier declaring your self to be a "fan" of one of the top 5 PL clubs, watch your team on Sky and be safe in the knowledge that a "bad season" means Europa and not Champions league because relegation and promotion are problems left to the disappointing world beneath you.

I have no interest in the Premier League!

Your comments about being a 'fan' though are quite accurate. Ok, so I'm a part-time supporter, customer, follower, whatever, the terminology doesn't bother me. (Unlike the early leavers who, by definition, are not as big fans as those who stay to the end - and then they get all arsey when this is pointed out to them!)

And I never said I wanted a guaranteed result - what I said was I wanted value for my money, and also the time spent. And most of the time modern football, at any level, doesn't 'do' it for me any more, and yes I went to the Goldstone, Gillingham, Withdean, etc etc etc through good times and bad.

The Fifth Column · Oct 20, 2014

The journey to the premier league is much more exciting and fulfilling than the reality of actually being there. I'm already reconciled with the fact we will not be reaching the playoffs this season and have accepted that this season will be a bog standard scrap with the possibility of a relegation battle. This will bring its own excitement and will temper expectations somewhat. The downside of course will be that actual attendances will go down and this is already clearly evident at the Amex despite the Albion gleefully still trumpeting the tickets sold attendance figures. Another issue the club will need to take notice of will be that during a season like this they will need to reassess their marketing and constant treatment of fans as an everlasting cash cow, its starting to grate on fans nerves quite a bit and many are starting to feel like the club only exists to fleece us of as much money as possible and personally it does feel to me that they are starting to take the piss.

For some of our younger, newer (JCL) fans and the Sky Sports generation, this season might come as a bit of a shock but for a large number of us who have been here since the Goldstone, Gillingham & Withdean, this season will be like the return of a familiar friend - one you always felt a bit uncomfortable around and were happy to see the back of but one you could have a laugh with and enjoy yourself with all the same. So i'm calling this season 'Gareth' and whilst I'm a bit embarassed Gareth has chosen this season to show his stupid ugly face again, I've already arranged to go out for a beer with him and hopefully come May next year he will bugger off back to Croydon and look up his other mate Nigel.

Surf's Up · Oct 20, 2014

Lethargic said:
It's a fair point and puts some perspective on the situation BUT...

The club choose to open pandora box and raise the expectation levels when they invested all the money in the infrastrasture, created the appalling Premier League Ready mantra and raised prices to Premier League levels. We have to accept that times have moved on and we are no longer scrapping around at Withdean we have been turned into a corporate machine now (not by the fans) and with that comes a new level of expectation. An example being the overhyped release of the 3rd shirt at half time on Saturday.

It is the club that raised the expectations and the fans are simply expecting them to deliver on their promises we are now customers not fans and we want value on our purchase(aweful way of saying it but again we are following the clubs lead). On a slight tangent we are not the only club going down this path and with the likes of MK Dongs franchised football is a genuine possibility in the future, with fans/customers of the future openly changing allegiences.

Very well put. There were 3 elements necessary to deliver success: Stadium, Training/Academy development and Team. The vast majority of resources have been put into 1and 2 along with mucho hype which has cranked up expectation regarding element 3 without the same level of investment. OK, I know we're operating under the FFP rules but it's clear if a club wants to find a way round these it can. The only way we can get promoted now is either by some kind of bent sponsorship deal or by finding the right manager (eg like Palace and Burnley did and probably Derby are doing) with good quality Championship players and play a more British game because we can't afford the kind of quality player needed to play the Sami/Bundesliga way.

Moshe Gariani · Oct 20, 2014

Brovion said:
I understand what you're saying, but the short-term matters as well. Saying 'jam tomorrow' doesn't help manage the club-enhanced expectations, people are entitled to ask 'WHEN will all this happen?' You sound a bit like an evangelist preacher telling us we WILL reach the promised land if we only Believe.

How about "jam" yesterday, today and tomorrow largely paid for by someone else...?

The saviour of all faithful Albion fans is already walking among us. Like the original he is unassuming in approach but nonetheless has performed a number of miracles to establish his credentials...

It beggars belief that otherwise intelligent people can overreact so spectacularly to the results of 12 football matches.

Titanic · Oct 20, 2014

Moshe Gariani said:
How about "jam" yesterday, today and tomorrow largely paid for by someone else...?

The saviour of all faithful Albion fans is already walking among us. Like the original he is unassuming in approach but nonetheless has performed a number of miracles to establish his credentials...

It beggars belief that otherwise intelligent people can overreact so spectacularly to the results of 12 football matches.

Hallelujah Brother!

brightonmark1234 · Oct 20, 2014

MattBackHome said:
See @Moshe Gariani's reply.

I'm not bewildered. Personally I think that the errors made with the signings of Stockdale (dodgy, getting dodgier) and Baldock (watch this space) are the fundamental reason we're struggling. But what alternatives were there?*

You're fully aware of the financial constraints in which we are expected to work and the limitations this puts on player recruitment, and your answer is to gamble heavier. The club have been absolutely clear about exactly why this can't, shouldn't and won't happen.

I suspect that there is a hidden subtext driving some of the criticisms of the past couple of days and a few people have been waiting for a string of bad results to start bashing the club.

*("Why didn't we look at Chris Wood on loan" has been the mantra of the disaffected over the past few weeks. Well how do you know we didn't?)

what about that waste of space who calls himself a forward in chris ogrady

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