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Should we really be upsett if Dunk leaves?









Blue Valkyrie

Blue Valkyrie

Not seen such Bravery!
Sep 1, 2012
32,165
Valhalla
Dolph Ins said:
Rumor in Observer today that Fulham are preparing a final bid of £5 million!
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Good. Once they've made their final bid we can ignore them and concentrate on the season, and only sell Dunk to a PL team for good money if they put in a decent enough offer.
 


M

Mutts Nuts

New member
Oct 30, 2011
4,918
scoobiewhite said:
Ok, so lots of comments on the forum thread about the likelyhood of Dunk leaving for Fulham (possibly) or Newcastle (More likely).

For a moment, forget the issue of when / how well we replace him, including common criticisms that most of us agree on (that we did not replace leo, Barnes, Bridcutt or Buckley well enough for example...)

Should we really be upset if Dunk goes for around £5m as looks likely....

Well, firstly, if he has a £5m release clause as many have speculated then there's nothing we can do other than offer him a better deal (might repel Fulham but not Newcastle). Tony, Barber and CH would know this and would therefore be reluctant to give any assurances (so on tonight's evidence we can assume its true).

Secondly, he had a good season just gone but in a poor team and, goals aside (which do matter I accept), he got sent off stupidly, got caught out of position quite a lot, made some terrible passes and had only just recovered from the court case that had a negative impact on our best season at the Amex. He also has a few other flaws in common with all young players and, like all other young players, you can never be sure whether they will overcome these or plateau. Bridcutt and Buckley have hardly set the Prem alight, even under the mighty Gus!

When at Uni in Bradford in the nineties, there was a very similar player at Bradford City in Andy O'Brien. Looked every bit the hot young prospect from Harrogate (so local too). He was bought by Newcastle and had 3/4 steady if unremarkable seasons. He always seemed to me to be the type of centre half who worked best with a more experienced, senior player. Essentially, Bradford got the right money and the player got to reach his optimum level for about 3 seasons. Who could moan at either party for that?

In short, that's where I think Dunk is...and £5m for a player at that stage of his career is a good price. We all thought £8m+ for Leo was an excellent price and I think that a £5m fee would be in line with that. Replacing the player is a different issue and one I agree we have failed on, but we cant stop players having ambition.

After one of the depressing home games late last season (I forget which one tbh), I met Dunk in the Pycombe Services. We had a brief 2-3 min chat and I got the feeling that he felt loyalty to his hometown club but that the court case had given him a much more acute sense of the fragility of his career and how easily a player can lose all of the opportunity that comes with the talent that they are lucky enough to have.

Based on that, if Newcastle or another Prem club came in I think he would take the opportunity without hesitation.

From our perspective it would be a shame but with hindsight we probably lost more when we sold Elphick and Cook and there was less fuss.

If he goes, I hope the fans and NSC refrain from the usual Barber, Bloom, CH, Recruitment and Player slating and realise that there is probably nothing they can do to prevent it if certain clauses are met. If I was his agent, I would have insisted upon such clauses during the last contract negotiations. Furthermore, I would have been doing my job well....ensuring that I created the most flexible opportunities for my client.

Right I think that's it....first post in ages/partly drunken stream of consciousness over.
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Rather than selling him , we should have tried him up front in pre season, think he has the makings of a 1st class striker certainly tall enough
 


Mackenzie

Mackenzie

Old Brightonian
Nov 7, 2003
33,533
East Wales
I'd be upset if he left, he's a very good young defender who is getting his head down despite the speculation. I can also understand why Tony Bloom would want to sell a player or two every year to help offset his losses a bit.

I hope that this season TB believes we've got (or will shortly acquire) a good enough squad to compete at the top end and try and keep Dunk to help us achieve our goal. He could be worth much more next year!
 












Murray 17

Murray 17

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
2,159
Selling your best players is how teams come unstuck. Easy to say that we could spend the £5m on 2 or 3 other players, but:

1) We have generally banked profits from the sale of other players, and

2) Every new signing is a gamble that may/may not come off.

Premiership clubs excepted, we should try to keep him as long as we can.
 




nwgull

nwgull

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2003
13,739
Manchester
Sidcup Seagull said:
Selling your best players is how teams come unstuck. Easy to say that we could spend the £5m on 2 or 3 other players, but:

1) We have generally banked profits from the sale of other players, and

2) Every new signing is a gamble that may/may not come off.

Premiership clubs excepted, we should try to keep him as long as we can.
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I'm not sure that selling your best is always a mistake if the deal is good enough. Most recent example would be Burnley selling Charlie Austin about 2 days before their promotion season.
 






Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,155
Goldstone
Justice said:
Would be a disaster if we sold Dunk this season even if we get £5-7m only 1-2m will be reinvested if that.
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What makes you think we'd only invest 1-2m? We'd invest it all.

Sidcup Seagull said:
Selling your best players is how teams come unstuck. Easy to say that we could spend the £5m on 2 or 3 other players, but:

1) We have generally banked profits from the sale of other players, and
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No we haven't. We don't make a profit, we make £10m a year loss, and when we've sold other players, the money goes towards new players and wages etc.


And selling your best players can work:
nwgull said:
I'm not sure that selling your best is always a mistake if the deal is good enough. Most recent example would be Burnley selling Charlie Austin about 2 days before their promotion season.
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How about Bournemouth selling Grabban?
 


Murray 17

Murray 17

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
2,159
Triggaaar said:
What makes you think we'd only invest 1-2m? We'd invest it all.

No we haven't. We don't make a profit, we make £10m a year loss, and when we've sold other players, the money goes towards new players and wages etc.
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My point was that if we sell players, the money does not go back into the team.

Of all the money we've raised in the last 18 months, how much has been spent on transfer fees? Not even £2m I guess. If someone said to me, you have a choice, as a fan; either we'll sell Dunk so that the club can pay back TB for the money he is losing, or we'll keep him, I'm going to choose the latter.
 




Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,155
Goldstone
Sidcup Seagull said:
My point was that if we sell players, the money does not go back into the team.
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And my point is, that it does. Where else do you think it goes? We operate close to the FFP limit, so if we don't sell a player, then we have to spend less elsewhere.

Of all the money we've raised in the last 18 months, how much has been spent on transfer fees? Not even £2m I guess. If someone said to me, you have a choice, as a fan; either we'll sell Dunk so that the club can pay back TB for the money he is losing, or we'll keep him, I'm going to choose the latter.
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Likewise, but that's not the choice. We don't pay TB back anything, and the club isn't about to. They will already be taking account of what's going to happen with Dunk. If they're planning on selling him, they will already be planning where to spend the money that comes in, they won't be trying to make the following season a low loss season.

I don't know how much we've spend on transfer fees, but even players that are out of contract cost money, and then there's the wages and loans etc. One way or another, we spend it all.
 


S

Seasidesage

New member
May 19, 2009
4,467
Brighton, United Kingdom
Issue we have if we sell is that we already need another CD, if we sell him we'll need two, with only 3 weeks of the window left. I would worry that we will end up with at least one loan were that to happen and it's a key position and currently one of our strongest. To play the rest of the season with Greer and an untried centre half would worry me. I would hope that we have players lined up should it happen but we were caught out when Ulloa left last season.

At the very least I would say this needs to be done this week if it has to happen...
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,155
Goldstone
Seasidesage said:
I would hope that we have players lined up should it happen but we were caught out when Ulloa left last season.
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I think the club need to be stronger when bids come in from the PL. Fine if there's still time to find a replacement, but players and buying clubs should understand that if a bid comes in so late we can't get a replacement, then it's too late.
 


8ace

8ace

Banned
Jul 21, 2003
23,811
Brighton
Seasidesage said:
Issue we have if we sell is that we already need another CD, if we sell him we'll need two, with only 3 weeks of the window left. I would worry that we will end up with at least one loan were that to happen and it's a key position and currently one of our strongest. To play the rest of the season with Greer and an untried centre half would worry me. I would hope that we have players lined up should it happen but we were caught out when Ulloa left last season.

At the very least I would say this needs to be done this week if it has to happen...
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The position might be more attractive to a potential new singing as they would probably be starting a lot of games instead of being behind GG and Dunk in the pecking order. (This is maybe clutching at straws a bit I appreciate)
 




S

Seasidesage

New member
May 19, 2009
4,467
Brighton, United Kingdom
Triggaaar said:
I think the club need to be stronger when bids come in from the PL. Fine if there's still time to find a replacement, but players and buying clubs should understand that if a bid comes in so late we can't get a replacement, then it's too late.
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Trouble is that's when the player becomes a problem and you are left with the worst of both worlds. A demotivated player and a depreciating asset. A very tricky position to be in for the club. I think the important thing right now is to get a decent centre half in ASAP to give us some cards to play, when, if, the PL bid comes in...
 


Triggaaar

Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,155
Goldstone
Seasidesage said:
Trouble is that's when the player becomes a problem and you are left with the worst of both worlds. A demotivated player and a depreciating asset.
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But if you are honest with them upfront, they shouldn't have the expectation to leave, and shouldn't be demotivated. If the player knows that the club won't stand in their way if a specific bid is made by a PL club by the end of July, then that's that. No need to be demotivated, if a PL clubs wants you, that's ok. But not if they don't want you enough to bid before August (or some other specific date). Then it's too late for us to replace you, so we simply can't sell.

If the player knows that's the situation, they shouldn't get upset when the club say no.
 


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