Taybha
Whalewhine
He’s a lumberjack and he’s ok
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[Albion] contract extension for Gross
- Thread starter forumwayseagull
- Start date
aolstudios
Well-known member
Well exactly. & an England squad is about as close to a Germany squad as ours is to City's
Actually, I would say that .. for exactly the same reasons as I'd say it about Gross. We know that there are several players in the pecking order ahead of him and yes, if there were about six injuries to CBs he may make the squad, but that's a remote possibility.
Also, not a fair way to judge him. Germany have insane depth. If he was from about 28 of the other 31 countries, he'd be at the tournament. If he was at a team of the ability of Sweden downwards, he'd probably be their best player.
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That's completely irrelevant, he's not Swedish he's German. When I say he's a long way from making his national squad, the fact that he could get into another team's squad doesn't count.
It's entirely relevant because it's Gross' ability that's being discussed. Saying "he's nowhere near his national squad" is an entirely unfair way to judge him as a player, as he had no choice as to his birth nationality. It's a completely nonsense and meaningless argument.
Example - Ahmed Heghazi - the West Brom defender - IS going to the World Cup, as he is one of the better Egyptian players. However, if he was born German, he almost certainly wouldn't be going. By your bizarre logic, Heghazi is therefore a better player than Gross.
I don't think Gross will have had any option of playing for any of the Top Clubs in any country around Europe.
I think he is at his ''optimum level'' - He is limited in certain parts of his game. His stats are so good because in advanced areas of the pitch he is clever and thinks fast which is where the goals and assists come from. His physical abilities and skills are not as expansive as the really top players.
He has been Brighton's best signing last year and he will continue to be a brilliant asset to us but he is not a top Champions League Club level player
You're completely rewriting what I said. I was specifically talking about the top 6 clubs - since when have West Brom been a top 6 club? Internationals at these clubs don't tend to be Egyptian (with one glorious exception) but English, German, Spanish, French, etc. So, therefore, it's entirely relevant to talk about Germany in that context.
Exactly. He's a fantastic player for us but let's not delude ourselves
But using the word "international" is a nonsense when comparing the qualities of players though, isn't it? It's complete luck which country they are born in, nothing to do with ability. Baffling argument.
Alright, just to prove it's a bollocks argument;
Manchester United
Valencia - Ecuador
Bailly - Ivory Coast
Lindelof - Sweden
Sanchez - Chile
Matic - Serbia
McTominay - Scotland
Liverpool
Lovren - Croatia
Grujic - Croatia
Klavan - Estonia
Mane - Senegal
Matip - Cameroon
Robertson - Scotland
Can't really be bothered to continue, but clearly there's plenty of internationals playing for top 6 clubs who play for other, less-fancied countries, because it obviously doesn't matter which country you play for to be good enough for a club team. Spain, Germany, France etc are the top countries so will supply lots of good players, and therefore they are the harder countries to get in the squads of, thus again proving my argument.
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You're the one comparing Germans with other internationals though, it's not me. I specifically said that's irrelevant.
A German international is not necessarily the same as an Egyptian or a Scottish or a Latvian, it's a meaningless comparison: Gross is German and can only be stacked against Germans.
Here are the over-age Germans in the Top 6 teams
Can - full international
Sane - full international
Gundogan - full international
Ozil - full international
Mustafi - full international
Ruediger - full international
All are full internationals, so that's the calibre of Germans that these teams are buying. There's no measure for comparing internationals of different countries but you can generally say that if there are two players from one country then the international will be better than the non-capped player. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about Germany, Egypt, Sweden or wherever ... the rule of the thumb is that the international would be the better player. It seems obvious to me, I'm not quite sure why you disagree with this
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
You mean he has a speech impediment. It doesn't affect his football, thankfully.
Try and make it sound worse than it is, Its just a lisp.
He can Cryuff turn me anyday.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
A lisp is a speech impediment. I know, as I lisp too.
This is the most baffling argument I've ever heard!
Right - I'll say this slowly and clearly - what bearing does someone's place of birth have on their ability as a footballer? (Hint: The answer is none).
The fact he is from Germany - a country with many, many, many good footballers - does not therefore mean he isn't good enough for a Top 6 side, as proven by my long list of examples of players from smaller countries who play for Top 6 sides - i.e. countries he would get in the teams of, thereby being "good" enough for Top 6 by your unusual logic. Your linking of nationality to ability is really odd. If anything, the fact he is from such a strong nation as Germany shows that you absolutely should not judge his ability on whether he is an international or not, in fact the exact opposite!
Also, I'm sure you understand the chicken-and-egg argument of; how many of those players were full internationals before they joined a top side? Probably very few. If Gross went to a top 6 side and performed well, he would be in serious contention.
Oh, also, you left out Loris Karius, for some strange reason.
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Agreed.
As a pointer to ability, NOT being capped becomes logically less informative, the stronger the nation involved.
i.e. a 25 year old footballer from Malta, never capped by his country, you could logically deduce, isn't that good.
A 25 year old footballer from Scotland, never capped by his country, you could logically deduce, has not reached a certain standard (certainly not Premier League standard).
A 25 year-old from Germany or Brazil, never capped, all you could logically deduce for sure, is that they are not utterly exceptional.