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[Albion] No trains Saturday



Bozza

Bozza

You can change this
Helpful Moderator
Jul 4, 2003
55,738
Back in Sussex
Bold Seagull said:
We must be their biggest single customer. For routes to the Amex, they have Saturdays throughout the year they know we won't have a home game including the international breaks to schedule works to key services to the Amex. Once fixtures are then published, they'll have a whole raft of other weekends to plan works ahead too. Yes, no doubt logistically it would take a lot more work to organise their works around their commitment to the Albion, but you'd think in any other industry that is what a service provider would do.
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Biggest single customer or not, Albion's custom to Southern will be a drop in the ocean, particularly when stacked up against commuters paying thousands of pounds a year for season tickets.

That aside, I'm not sure the Albion's bargaining position will be particularly strong...

Albion: Now come on Southern, play the game our way or we'll use someone el...oh.
Southern: You'll use someone...?
Albion: Nothing.
 




Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,796
Hove
Bozza said:
Biggest single customer or not, Albion's custom to Southern will be a drop in the ocean, particularly when stacked up against commuters paying thousands of pounds a year for season tickets.

That aside, I'm not sure the Albion's bargaining position will be particularly strong...

Albion: Now come on Southern, play the game our way or we'll use someone el...oh.
Southern: You'll use someone...?
Albion: Nothing.
Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting for a second that works are not scheduled for a weekend avoiding disruption to commuters, I just would have thought that you would have a flag against lines serving Falmer to consider non match day dates for scheduling works i.e. an international break weekend. As [MENTION=21064]easy[/MENTION]10 says, it probably isn't that easy, but then again, can it really be that hard?
 


Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
34,185
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
Bold Seagull said:
I wasn't suggesting for a second that works are not scheduled for a weekend avoiding disruption to commuters, I just would have thought that you would have a flag against lines serving Falmer to consider non match day dates for scheduling works i.e. an international break weekend. As [MENTION=21064]easy[/MENTION]10 says, it probably isn't that easy, but then again, can it really be that hard?
Click to expand...

Problem is that you've got three lines to consider. I think they will try and keep Brighton - Falmer - Lewes and back clear but anything else seems fair game. With three different lines covering miles and miles of tracks and signals to consider I'm not sure it's realistic to do as you suggest. It certainly won't be the first time that the Coastway West, Mainline or part of Coastway East has been closed on a match day.

A bigger debate is the service on Coastway West as a whole. As a regular user on matchday I find it completely inadequate. Too few trains with too few carriages and, I suspect, regular users get squeezed out by football fans. Really a "normal matchday service" should include enhanced services across the board but I suspect Southern don't have the staff, rolling stock, infrastructure or inclination. I wonder what would have happened at the planning sessions if the anti-Falmer lot would have focussed on the travel issues in places like Worthing, Shoreham, Eastbourne and Burgess Hill instead of vehicle / bat collisions? :lol:

Anyway, selfishly I'm ok tomorrow as my Mrs and kids are away for the weekend so my plans involve parkrun, breakfast, bus in to town and pub. My mate who is bringing his kids from Portslade is fuming though.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
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Jul 11, 2003
59,566
The Fatherland


R

rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,567
Bozza said:
Biggest single customer or not, Albion's custom to Southern will be a drop in the ocean, particularly when stacked up against commuters paying thousands of pounds a year for season tickets.

That aside, I'm not sure the Albion's bargaining position will be particularly strong...

Albion: Now come on Southern, play the game our way or we'll use someone el...oh.
Southern: You'll use someone...?
Albion: Nothing.
Click to expand...

The club's bargaining position very much depends on the contract between Southern and the club. If i was negotiating that contract, the condition would be that trains will run on all matchdays. I would also have "staged payments" on a monthly basis and if Southern failed to deliver a service on a matchday, then they don't get paid.

I suspect that the club are paying Southern "up front", in which case the club has no bargaining power and Southern won't give a toss whether they run a service or not as they have already got their money
 






J

jmsc

New member
Jul 19, 2003
647
Old Shoreham Road :o(
rippleman said:
The club's bargaining position very much depends on the contract between Southern and the club. If i was negotiating that contract, the condition would be that trains will run on all matchdays. I would also have "staged payments" on a monthly basis and if Southern failed to deliver a service on a matchday, then they don't get paid.

I suspect that the club are paying Southern "up front", in which case the club has no bargaining power and Southern won't give a toss whether they run a service or not as they have already got their money
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Nothing to do with sasta, network rail do all engineering work.
 






U

Uter

Well-known member
Aug 5, 2008
1,474
The land of chocolate
Guinness Boy said:
Problem is that you've got three lines to consider. I think they will try and keep Brighton - Falmer - Lewes and back clear but anything else seems fair game. With three different lines covering miles and miles of tracks and signals to consider I'm not sure it's realistic to do as you suggest. It certainly won't be the first time that the Coastway West, Mainline or part of Coastway East has been closed on a match day.

A bigger debate is the service on Coastway West as a whole. As a regular user on matchday I find it completely inadequate. Too few trains with too few carriages and, I suspect, regular users get squeezed out by football fans. Really a "normal matchday service" should include enhanced services across the board but I suspect Southern don't have the staff, rolling stock, infrastructure or inclination. I wonder what would have happened at the planning sessions if the anti-Falmer lot would have focussed on the travel issues in places like Worthing, Shoreham, Eastbourne and Burgess Hill instead of vehicle / bat collisions? :lol:

Anyway, selfishly I'm ok tomorrow as my Mrs and kids are away for the weekend so my plans involve parkrun, breakfast, bus in to town and pub. My mate who is bringing his kids from Portslade is fuming though.
Click to expand...

They definitely take account of the fixtures when decided when to do engineering works between Brighton and Falmer. They also need to consider other events when planning engineering works, e.g Pride, the Brighton festival. I suspect in general they try to avoid the Summer months for weekend closures too, to keep disruption to tourists down to a minimum. Once they take everything into account they are probably not left with many options.

That said, I do wonder whether there is a culture of "that's the way we have always done it" when carrying out engineering works. Weekend, in particular Sunday, travel has grown a lot in the last 20 years and IMO the industry hasn't really adapted to modern demand particularly well.

As an aside, once the current Lewes - Seaford works have been completed they will be able to run 3 trains an hour between Brighton and London via Lewes instead of the current 1 an hour, so this should make closures between Brighton and Burgess Hill a bit more bearable for those disinclined to take replacement buses.

I agree that Coastway West overcrowding is an issue. The 3-car class 313 trains are leased until the end of the current franchise (2021 or 2022). They are already over 40 years old so hopefully they will be consigned to the scrapyard at that point. There are 30 5-car class 707 trains that will be available from next year and they are only a couple of years old. I am hoping these 30 units will replace the 19 class 313 units for Coastway duties. This would be a major boost to capacity, though admittedly they would probably be massive overkill for some routes, e.g. Bognor/Littlehampton.
 




The Large One

The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
Guinness Boy said:
Problem is that you've got three lines to consider. I think they will try and keep Brighton - Falmer - Lewes and back clear but anything else seems fair game. With three different lines covering miles and miles of tracks and signals to consider I'm not sure it's realistic to do as you suggest. It certainly won't be the first time that the Coastway West, Mainline or part of Coastway East has been closed on a match day.

A bigger debate is the service on Coastway West as a whole. As a regular user on matchday I find it completely inadequate. Too few trains with too few carriages and, I suspect, regular users get squeezed out by football fans. Really a "normal matchday service" should include enhanced services across the board but I suspect Southern don't have the staff, rolling stock, infrastructure or inclination. I wonder what would have happened at the planning sessions if the anti-Falmer lot would have focussed on the travel issues in places like Worthing, Shoreham, Eastbourne and Burgess Hill instead of vehicle / bat collisions? :lol:

Anyway, selfishly I'm ok tomorrow as my Mrs and kids are away for the weekend so my plans involve parkrun, breakfast, bus in to town and pub. My mate who is bringing his kids from Portslade is fuming though.
Click to expand...

Back in those days, we didn't have a government quite so intent on screwing it up so ideologically (by believing they could smash the unions) or deliberately (by believing they could smash the paying public for not supporting them in trying to smash the unions) or completely.
 




Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,796
Hove
Uter said:
They definitely take account of the fixtures when decided when to do engineering works between Brighton and Falmer. They also need to consider other events when planning engineering works, e.g Pride, the Brighton festival. I suspect in general they try to avoid the Summer months for weekend closures too, to keep disruption to tourists down to a minimum. Once they take everything into account they are probably not left with many options.
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Last weekend of the school holidays would suggest they don't give a crap about tourism either...

I know it's not as easy as saying 'why not next week', but why not next week FFS? :moo:
 


wakeytom

wakeytom

New member
Apr 14, 2011
2,718
The Hacienda
Bold Seagull said:
I wasn't suggesting for a second that works are not scheduled for a weekend avoiding disruption to commuters, I just would have thought that you would have a flag against lines serving Falmer to consider non match day dates for scheduling works i.e. an international break weekend. As [MENTION=21064]easy[/MENTION]10 says, it probably isn't that easy, but then again, can it really be that hard?
Click to expand...

I dont get why they should though? I have been to NFL games in London when Arsenal are at home so fans all over the place and had to get a bus between Three Bridges and Lewes. In relation to their total revenue the income generated from the Brighton contract is probably tiny
 


The Large One

The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
Bold Seagull said:
Last weekend of the school holidays would suggest they don't give a crap about tourism either...

I know it's not as easy as saying 'why not next week', but why not next week FFS? :moo:
Click to expand...

To be fair, with a place like Brighton, there is never an ideal weekend. True, thousands are affected on home match weekends when one of the lines is closed, but even on international weekends, thousands of other people still use the trains to do other stuff just because there is no football.

As for fitting these engineering works around home football matches - for the start of the season, that's can't happen. It's either that, or the list of exceptions the Albion would ask for from the fixtures committee - knowing what engineering works are happening - would make the fixture list almost meaningless.
 




Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,796
Hove
wakeytom said:
I dont get why they should though? I have been to NFL games in London when Arsenal are at home so fans all over the place and had to get a bus between Three Bridges and Lewes. In relation to their total revenue the income generated from the Brighton contract is probably tiny
Click to expand...

Yeah of course, a London mainline you're unlikely to find a weekend you're not disturbing some major event.

We are talking the coast line though. Most of the time at a weekend the Brighton - Southampton lines are under used, I use it a lot at weekends as I sometimes watch Havant & Waterlooville games and visit family that way and it is well under capacity UNLESS Brighton have a game. That is the only time this line is seriously busy at a weekend, that and Pride to be fair. So while you might have no choice on who you disturb for London lines, you do for the coast lines.
 


Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,796
Hove
The Large One said:
To be fair, with a place like Brighton, there is never an ideal weekend. True, thousands are affected on home match weekends when one of the lines is closed, but even on international weekends, thousands of other people still use the trains to do other stuff just because there is no football.

As for fitting these engineering works around home football matches - for the start of the season, that's can't happen. It's either that, or the list of exceptions the Albion would ask for from the fixtures committee - knowing what engineering works are happening - would make the fixture list almost meaningless.
Click to expand...

See above. Other than Pride and Brighton games, at a weekend, you can use the coastline from Southampton to Eastbourne and it is rarely busy.

Now you mention the other people using the service, they are even more inconvenienced because there won't be enough buses because of all the football fans. Next weekend, yes there would be disruption, but you'd be jumping straight on the replacement bus service. That won't happen tomorrow.
 




U

Uter

Well-known member
Aug 5, 2008
1,474
The land of chocolate
Bold Seagull said:
See above. Other than Pride and Brighton games, at a weekend, you can use the coastline from Southampton to Eastbourne and it is rarely busy.
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That doesn't really tally with my experience, albeit I am only a sporadic user on non-match days. I caught the (4-car) 9:26 from Southampton to Brighton last Saturday morning. No seats left after Fareham and so rammed from Worthing onward that first class was declassified. No disruption AFAIK so no reason to believe this was an untypical level of demand. Most people were travelling all the way to Brighton, so presumably a mix of shoppers and day-trippers.
 






thedonkeycentrehalf

thedonkeycentrehalf

Retired
Jul 7, 2003
8,622
BensGrandad said:
Whilest the major problems are the trains from the west, what time would most people expect Mill Road to be filled by.
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Will be full early not just because of the trains but with Mithras House out of action the Racecourse is not as convenient for those coming from the West so they will all try to get into Mill Road early.
 


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