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Term time Dad loses in the Supreme Court



Chicken Run

Chicken Run

Member Since Jul 2003
NSC Patron
Jul 17, 2003
18,432
Valley of Hangleton
I'm a father of three, one in full time employment now, one at Sixth form and the youngest at High school, the thought of going on holiday outside of their hols never crossed my mind, I could have saved £100 on my hol with them next week but wouldn't dream of taking them out of school
 
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Marshy

Marshy

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
19,718
FRUIT OF THE BLOOM
happypig said:
No it doesn't, it's not "broken".

Holiday companies price according to demand; if they want to sell May/June/September/October holidays they need to make them cheaper because there is less demand.
If the government brought in a law requiring all holidays be priced the same throughout the year, the off-peak prices would go up.
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Yep and the off peaks should go up a bit to cover that. it would literally be pennies
 


L

lost in london

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2003
1,782
London
Wilko said:
I do not know where to start with this but I will try:

1) Do you really think a school can work with a H&S issue, imagine the complaints if a kid got injured
2) A school holiday for children does not mean a holiday for staff
3) An inset day is not a day off for staff, it is training day in exactly the same way all companies and businesses have training days
4) How is sport not beneficial or educational? No wonder there is an obesity crisis in this country
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1) It's not a H&S point, the works were long finished - the entire school was shut for two days to allow the teachers to get the classrooms ready. In my view this should have been done by the teachers in the last two working days of the school holiday not the first two days of term. The feeling I got was that the school decided the staff / union would kick up a lot more of a fuss than the parents so they decided not to try and get the teachers in during school holidays.
2) Exactly. They should have been working during the kids holiday getting the classrooms set up.
3) Why can't they have them during school holidays?
4) It is beneficial, but have you seen what they do in PE at primary school? They get a lot more exercise on holiday.

I'm not having a go, I don't know how schools work or what sort of holiday allowance teachers get, I'd be interested to know though if you know the answers? Do teachers get, for example, ten weeks annual leave the same as childrens holidays?
 


L

lost in london

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2003
1,782
London
Bold Seagull said:
Construction work is hardly a whim. Inset days are not part of the academic year they are 5 days additional days that teachers have for CPD and training, often addressing key points from the School Development Plan.
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Agreed, the construction works aren't on a whim. It's the decision to shut the school and get teachers getting classrooms ready in term time rather during the holidays that was annoying.
 


Goldstone1976

Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Apr 30, 2013
13,783
Herts
popcorn.jpg
 




Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,439
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Indurain's Lungs said:
It's £60 per day per child so could work out at £600 a week for a family with 2 kids - probably a reasonable deterrent.
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Mr Platt's original fine was £60, which the Isle of Wight doubled to £120, when he refused to pay.
 


LlcoolJ

LlcoolJ

Mama said knock you out.
Oct 14, 2009
12,982
Sheffield
The real issue is that the government have taken away the power from head teachers to make these decisions.

It used to work just fine where a kid who had exemplary attendance and high achievement could be taken on a term time holiday if the head deemed it educational and/ or not disruptive to their education or that of their class.

Now the parameters have been made so narrow that their hands are basically tied and the kid with 95% attendance, who is miles ahead of most of the class, is treated the same as the one who is always late, has loads of "sick days" because their feckless parents can't be bothered to take them to school and who's education is already suffering.

Government meddling, as usual, is the problem as common sense can't be applied.
 


H

HitchinSeagull

Active member
Aug 9, 2012
414
middletoenail said:
I'd argue that a week away listening to different languages and experiencing other cultures is more valuable than some of the lessons I was part of!
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Exactly, all these sanctamonius people talking about education seem to be ignoring the fact that a large part of children's 'education' is just childcare, the government has done it's sums and worked out the tax gains and lower social security payments outweigh the cost of school. That's why most of the better performing school systems across Europe start at ages as late as 7, us 4ish! Go figure. If your heavily involved the majority of their early education comes at home, your far better off taking them to experience new cultures if that's the only time you can afford it. But I would say that it's a pity the test case was over something as frivolous as Disney which I don't agree with, visiting relatives is the one thing kids should always be able to do.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 




Stat Brother

Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,664
West west west Sussex
Totally agree with the court, and this bs should never have got that far.
Why can't people just simply accept when they are in the wrong?

But, esp in Primary school, when the last week of term consists of watching films and tidying up the classroom/grounds, schools moral high ground is a little bit shaky.
 
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R

ROSM

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2005
6,194
Just far enough away from LDC
lost in london said:
1) It's not a H&S point, the works were long finished - the entire school was shut for two days to allow the teachers to get the classrooms ready. In my view this should have been done by the teachers in the last two working days of the school holiday not the first two days of term. The feeling I got was that the school decided the staff / union would kick up a lot more of a fuss than the parents so they decided not to try and get the teachers in during school holidays.
2) Exactly. They should have been working during the kids holiday getting the classrooms set up.
3) Why can't they have them during school holidays?
4) It is beneficial, but have you seen what they do in PE at primary school? They get a lot more exercise on holiday.

I'm not having a go, I don't know how schools work or what sort of holiday allowance teachers get, I'd be interested to know though if you know the answers? Do teachers get, for example, ten weeks annual leave the same as childrens holidays?
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As a former school governor - and of one that was going through a significant building project, I can only say that schools don't shut on a whim.

We did extend a half term by two days to allow for significant restructuring and class moves during building buy this was agreed with full and long discussions with the teachers , governors, local authority and builders. In our circumstance, the classrooms needed to be emptied by 11pm on a Thursday evening (all done by teachers) with the new classrooms being handed back at 9am on the Monday. The teachers then worked until midnight that night to get the building ready for the Tuesday.

This even involved teachers moving flammable materials that the builders had left against the building and health and safety wouldn't allow. So they were moved 50 metres away from the school building.

I had also seen them regularly come I on other holidays to keep areas clean during construction.

Finally we liaise with parents and carers so we got a best worst set of dates (adding days each end so those who worked part time e.g. Mon to weds or Wed to Fri didn't suffer all the hit.
 


H

halbpro

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2012
2,862
Brighton
LlcoolJ said:
The real issue is that the government have taken away the power from head teachers to make these decisions.

It used to work just fine where a kid who had exemplary attendance and high achievement could be taken on a term time holiday if the head deemed it educational and/ or not disruptive to their education or that of their class.

Now the parameters have been made so narrow that their hands are basically tied and the kid with 95% attendance, who is miles ahead of most of the class, is treated the same as the one who is always late, has loads of "sick days" because their feckless parents can't be bothered to take them to school and who's education is already suffering.

Government meddling, as usual, is the problem as common sense can't be applied.
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I may have misunderstood, but the BBC article says that it was the head teacher's decision not to let the kid go?
 


Perkino

Perkino

Well-known member
Dec 11, 2009
5,986
Surely this is a bunch of spoilt brats valuing holidays at a higher level of importance than Education. Schools are full of lazy individuals who want life served up on a platter for them, they lack the initiative to excel and push themselves.

America & Australia are two examples of an end of year assessment where unless passed a student has to re-sit the year. I'd love to see that in operation in the UK it might motivate some to apply themselves
 




K

kjgood

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2008
997
Brynna South Wales (And I'm not Welsh either!)
What 'Free' education is this then or am I missing something? Doesnt the funding for education come from National and Local taxation that everyone pays into whether they are working or not? So how is this education 'Free'?


The Spanish said:
especially if it's state education which other people are paying to put your kids through. i really can't get the mentality of challenging the state who is educating your child for free, over taking them on a holiday that you think that this free education is stopping you from getting a good deal on.

its like moaning they make you come home to sign on from your holiday.
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portlock seagull

portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
17,071
Good. The rights of individuals should not come before the greater good in this instance - we live in an age of 'me me me' and the chaos it leaves behind as a consequence is getting ridiculous. Sit down, shut up as we say in football.
 


Wilko

Wilko

LUZZING chairs about
Sep 19, 2003
9,922
BN1
lost in london said:
1) It's not a H&S point, the works were long finished - the entire school was shut for two days to allow the teachers to get the classrooms ready. In my view this should have been done by the teachers in the last two working days of the school holiday not the first two days of term. The feeling I got was that the school decided the staff / union would kick up a lot more of a fuss than the parents so they decided not to try and get the teachers in during school holidays.
2) Exactly. They should have been working during the kids holiday getting the classrooms set up.
3) Why can't they have them during school holidays?
4) It is beneficial, but have you seen what they do in PE at primary school? They get a lot more exercise on holiday.

I'm not having a go, I don't know how schools work or what sort of holiday allowance teachers get, I'd be interested to know though if you know the answers? Do teachers get, for example, ten weeks annual leave the same as childrens holidays?
Click to expand...

Would you be happy to go in for extra work on your holidays? Would you be happy to do training days on bank holidays or in your Christmas holidays?

In answer to your question. No, teachers do not get the same holidays as the children. I have had this debate numerous times on here, it is the equivalent of me saying that a business person only works when they are presenting, any preparations, research and planning for business is a holiday, any meetings are days off. In fact, any meetings business people have should be made in their own time or in their personal holiday.
 


Stat Brother

Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,664
West west west Sussex
Wilko said:
Would you be happy to go in for extra work on your holidays? Would you be happy to do training days on bank holidays or in your Christmas holidays?

In answer to your question. No, teachers do not get the same holidays as the children. I have had this debate numerous times on here, it is the equivalent of me saying that a business person only works when they are presenting, any preparations, research and planning for business is a holiday, any meetings are days off. In fact, any meetings business people have should be made in their own time or in their personal holiday.
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So are you saying teachers only have 4 to 6 weeks holiday a year?
 




Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,439
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
It's a sledghammer to crack a nut. There were/are levels of truancy which are unacceptable, so to combat it, nobody is allowed time off any more. All parents and children have to suffer because of the few.
Holidays are not necessarily going to Disneyland or being rich, but can be as simple as going to Devon or the New Forest.
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,439
Beside the seaside, beside the sea


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