D
Deleted member 2719
Guest
Why would anyone with a brain cell believe that the TORYgraph would print something even vaguely balanced about the subject?
Just saying....
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General Election 2017
- Thread starter Giraffe
- Start date
Just saying....
studio150
Well-known member
EEA outcome?
I honestly think we are all being played here, I cannot be sure if Corbyn has been as competent as some are claiming whilst May probably not being as bad as others have said, we are in a new era of politics and social media and the press producing a melodrama.
May stormed to an inevitable landslide until the media thought hold on lets make it more competitive and we were then fed that somehow Corbyn is a good principled guy, still not sure how he has acquired this but he has none the less, I suspect if the media really is driven by Murdoch that they will turn on Corbyn and his team now until June 8th given May a comfortable win, its just my intuition but it wouldnt surprise me it it actually happened.
May stormed to an inevitable landslide until the media thought hold on lets make it more competitive and we were then fed that somehow Corbyn is a good principled guy, still not sure how he has acquired this but he has none the less, I suspect if the media really is driven by Murdoch that they will turn on Corbyn and his team now until June 8th given May a comfortable win, its just my intuition but it wouldnt surprise me it it actually happened.
Only if they had your attitude.
Article 50 has a deadline set in stone. It would be time to work together instead of playing at being power hungry children.
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"Virtue Signalling"
A phrase the Alt Right have purloined despite it sounding like it comes straight out of a sociology textbook. PJW uses it all the time, without irony, despite preaching to an audience made up solely of right wing fruitcakes from his Mum's basement.
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Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
The government's own report in analysing it's options, and looking at the likes of Norway and Switzerland noted that both of those country's trading arrangements with the EU oblige them to adhere to and adopt EU rules and laws into their own laws. So the reality is, we may still end up subject to those EU rules that you voted to leave. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/504661/Alternatives_to_membership_possible_models_for_the_UK_outside_the_EU_Accessible.pdf
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
For sure, the non-EU EEA countries will accept EU law as part and parcel of trade but only so far as the terms of that trade agreement. Put simply, Norway and Iceland are not in the EU because they don't want the EU dictating the terms by which they are allowed to fish and who is allowed to fish in their waters. Those countries can choose their own destinies and how much of their powers they want to give up whereas a full EU country has no powers to retain legal supremacy in any area. Membership of the EU is a legal all-in with no exceptions.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
See reply above as I think it covers the same thing.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
Could be one of those two reasons. Could also be a denial based on defending their man at all costs. The unsavoury speeches made by the like of McDonnell etc are there for all to see but if people choose not to see then it is what it is. The attempted airbrushing of history is at least entirely consistent with the Marxist roots of the Momentum/Militant movement currently controlling Labour. That's the problem. I like JC's solid record in opposing the EU and advocating we leave, I like re Nationalisation of essential public services and respect that he cares about equality. I intensely dislike his unilateral nuclear disarmament views, his open borders ideology and his record of supporting the IRA. I don't need to rely on dodgy internet links as I was there in the 1970s and 1980s and remember these people from my time as a member of the Labour Party. If youngsters prefer to look the other way at these inconvenient truths then so be it.
ManOfSussex
We wunt be druv
I lived in Gaborone for 2 years. It was brutally attacked on several occasions by apartheid South Africa, resulting in innocent lives being lost as a result of a despicable regime supported and supplied arms by the Conservative Government of the day. Should I not vote Conservative as a result of what South Africa did to Botswana and other neighbouring countries in the 1980s?
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
[MENTION=20527]studio150[/MENTION] and [MENTION=16159]Bold Seagull[/MENTION] I think that what you both mentioned highlights why I distrust the EU or more specifically the Eurocrats and politicians who champion it. It seems highly suspect to me on a philosophical level that in order to get a trade agreement, a country must cede its legal supremacy and agree to closer political unity with countries with disparate cultures.
It flies in the face of one of the jus cogens of international law that every country has the right to self-determination.
It flies in the face of one of the jus cogens of international law that every country has the right to self-determination.
You've hit the nail of the head.
Major, Blair and Cameron ceded more and more national control (way beyond trade and economics) over a whole raft of laws and the process of law itself, through Treaties and Directives. By then, any one country objecting, would have been portrayed in the club as a pariah. So the creep towards a superstate was and is inevitable. The UK population never got a chance to have their say on any of these critical moments in our history. Eventually something snapped, UKIP rose, but more importantly the numbers of secret and overt Euro sceptics of all classes grew massively to deliver the shock Referendum result.
If stronger and more Euro sceptic UK PM's/Governments had been in power at those key stages, perhaps the UK could have retained membership on the original terms?
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
It doesn't fly in the face, because we can leave any treaty that we cede legality to, or agree to adopt rules from. Sovereignty has always been maintained because we have enacted Brexit, pure and simple. Sovereignty was never ceded to the EU because we were members of it and agreed to be part of it. The very act of leaving is at the highest philosophical level of us having always maintained our right to self-determination.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
I've slated him on here for not speaking out previously when his supporters launch personal or racist attacks against anyone who questions him but Corbyn's done it here and fair play to him. It's in response to an Emma Barnett interview with him this morning. Afterwards she came in for quite a lot of abuse and bizarrely a completely irrelevant but nasty debate opened up about whether she was a Zionist not least from a few left-wingers that are utterly obsessed about such things and have a sketchy history in blurring (legitimate) anti-Zionist criticism into something a bit more sinister. I'd still like the Labour Party to do more but definitely praise where it's due.
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D
Deleted member 2719
Guest
My point is totally related to Corbyn the man who just happens to head up the labour party now.
Why would any true labour supporter vote for him? He is weak and boring and we need a leader to negotiate Brexit.
Corbyn is so far off the mark of getting us a deal even with a market trader.
If he some how gets in this would be the biggest Political disaster of all time in the UK.
If you watch the one show on now, he is even boring the presenters to death.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
I suppose it is fair now to talk about Theresa May being naked alone in a room with the EU negotiating team and laugh at the thought of it
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
Sorry, I think it does fly in the face of it. In order simply to do business we must give up large parts of our rights that are enshrined in international law. And if we want to keep our rights then countries under the direction of the EU will refuse to do business with us. On the face of it, the EU isn't exactly venturing into the spirit of that law and that's putting it mildly.
Political science describes the EU as a good example giving Divided Sovereignty. First developed in Federal States, obviously the USA. Some supreme powers are held at Westminster and some by the EU as a body.
Bold Seagull
strong and stable with me, or...
We will still be doing the same with our membership of NATO, UN, WTO. NATO binds us to a % spend on defence for example. We cede our sovereign rights beyond our EU membership, and even leaving the EU doesn't give us sovereign independence, other than we can leave all our other treaty agreements at any time we choose. No trade agreement is without compromise, ceding ground, and agreeing a set of terms and conditions.
Nothing could be worse than the thought of Jeremy 'The Tiger' Corbyn's dalliance with Diane 'Dunkin Donuts' Abbott.