[Politics] Does earning £50k a year make you 'rich'

ChickenBaltiPie · Oct 30, 2018

I’ve worked hard and applied myself (at times) a great deal to achieve what I have by 30. I earn in excess of 50k with bonuses etc, no commute, no overtime, no children, private healthcare, healthy pension etc but I have a mortgage of over 2k a month so I can struggle a little bit at times tbh BUT that’s my choice and I consider myself extremely privileged as should anyone earning what I do tbh, no matter what your circumstances or life choices, even if that’s kids etc, open your eyes, the vast, vast majority of the worlds population would give anything to be in your position. Some of these comments make me very angry! You’re ‘rich’

Da Man Clay · Oct 30, 2018

Rich is such a loose term but I can’t see how 50k can make you rich in this south of England. It may make you comfortable depending on your circumtstances but that is not quite the same.

Knocky’s nose covers it perfectly IMO.

jackanada · Oct 31, 2018

If 50k isn't rich then I'm very definitely poor.

zefarelly · Oct 31, 2018

Fair point, to be more specific, Living in central Shoreham, as I have done most of my life. Tried other places and always come back. A three bed house here is 350k and up.A 2 bed flat is a minimum of 200. When I got on the ladder in 1992 I was 20, earning 10k a year and bought a 2 bed flat for 39k. 10 years ago I could still afford to race a car 5 or 6 times a year, with a son and a camper. Not now, it's a £1500 weekend each race! We live in a normal 3 bed semi, drive older 2nd hand cars, and do most diy things ourselves. We certainly don't n't feel poor, but far from 'rich' whatever that is. For me, it would be living as I do and having change to save at the end of each month.

What ever happens next year is going to be shit and we will all be poorer still.

DarrenFreemansPerm said:
Bit of a sweeping statement, no? My partner and I earn less than £40k between us, we have a child, and a mortgage on our 3 bedroom house. We don’t don’t take the holidays we once did because it would be pointless taking a baby snowboarding, however we will as soon as he’s old enough. We take care of the money we do earn and as a result we can still afford to do nice things.

BN41Albion · Oct 31, 2018

ChickenBaltiPie said:
I’ve worked hard and applied myself (at times) a great deal to achieve what I have by 30. I earn in excess of 50k with bonuses etc, no commute, no overtime, no children, private healthcare, healthy pension etc but I have a mortgage of over 2k a month so I can struggle a little bit at times tbh BUT that’s my choice and I consider myself extremely privileged as should anyone earning what I do tbh, no matter what your circumstances or life choices, even if that’s kids etc, open your eyes, the vast, vast majority of the worlds population would give anything to be in your position. Some of these comments make me very angry! You’re ‘rich’

Absolutely. Comments like 'it means you can go on a holiday or two a year but doesn't mean you're rich...' make me angry.

To billions of people around the world, simply owning a washing machine would make you rich in their eyes. Owning over 50k and being able to live the lifestyle that affords (or even over 25/30k a year) would make you extremely rich in billions of people's eyes.

Some depressing comments on this thread.

mikeyjh · Oct 31, 2018

BN41Albion said:
Absolutely. Comments like 'it means you can go on a holiday or two a year but doesn't mean you're rich...' make me angry.

To billions of people around the world, simply owning a washing machine would make you rich in their eyes. Owning over 50k and being able to live the lifestyle that affords (or even over 25/30k a year) would make you extremely rich in billions of people's eyes.

Some depressing comments on this thread.

I've been reading this and thinking similar, the thing is, it's all relative isn't it. Most people in this country can eat enough food most of the time and for the rest, well there's food banks aren't there so they're not exactly poor are they?

Likewise people who can afford to go to Lanzarote for 3 holidays a year don't consider themselves rich when they look at their neighbours and friends but on a global scale, they are.

zefarelly said:
Fair point, to be more specific, Living in central Shoreham, as I have done most of my life. Tried other places and always come back. A three bed house here is 350k and up.A 2 bed flat is a minimum of 200. When I got on the ladder in 1992 I was 20, earning 10k a year and bought a 2 bed flat for 39k. 10 years ago I could still afford to race a car 5 or 6 times a year, with a son and a camper. Not now, it's a £1500 weekend each race! We live in a normal 3 bed semi, drive older 2nd hand cars, and do most diy things ourselves. We certainly don't n't feel poor, but far from 'rich' whatever that is. For me, it would be living as I do and having change to save at the end of each month.

What ever happens next year is going to be shit and we will all be poorer still.

I don't mean to pick on you here but I just want to make a point that while Shoreham has become stupidly expensive (I'll come back to that), you did make choices 10 years ago "I could still afford to race a car 5 or 6 times a year, with a son and a camper" which are 100% absolutely your choice but they do have a direct impact on where you're at today. We have many friends who are regular taking their families on > £10k holidays, always relatively new cars, always on expensive days out with the kids but then have many years left on their mortgages and not much in the pot for a rainy day. It's all down to choice of course but I do find it odd.

Just to point out again, I'm sure you had a fantastic time with your son, a camper and a race car and don't regret a thing, I'm just highlighting some of the choices middle class people can afford to make while still not regarding themselves as rich.

CheeseRolls · Oct 31, 2018

"This from [MENTION=37204]the[/MENTION]IFS is jaw-dropping: "Health spending will have risen from 23% of public service spending in 2000 to 29% in 2010, and is set to reach 38% by 2023-24". Are we making a rational choice in reconfiguring the state as essentially a giant health service and little else?" Quote from a Peston tweet yesterday, which is thought provoking.

How can you pay more?
Who should pick up the rest of the tab?
Don't care someone else's problem?

As a number of people have said, assets are the true test of wealth not income, particularly if income is measured over a short period, like 12 months.

As someone who built a nice extension on the back of my property, I should really be paying more council tax, which if it were overhauled would make a massive difference to the care crisis facing local councils. I would also like to see some of this burden shared with property owners rather than just tenants. A new school, park, doctor's surgery in your area, will provide long term benefits, way beyond a short term tenancy and will positively impact the property value. If the net effect here is to dis incentivise people from becoming landlords, again I think this is generally a positive thing.

There should be a switch towards taxing wealth, nothing drastic, but a gradual change in emphasis, from constantly asking middle income earners to pick up the tab for everything.
I would like to see some changes to the whole IR35 self employed thing, specifically the long term impact of paying yourself a tiny salary and big dividends. How about a 5 year limit, if you don't employ anyone outside of your immediate family in the business, your tax relief diminishes?
Not a popular one I am sure, but fuel duty probably needs to start rising again, if there is to be a true incentive for people to switch to less polluting forms of transport.

I get the whole don't care thing. Everything from the cut government net borrowing to zero story sold by the Tories from 2010 onwards, through to the labour renationalisation plans that will punish fat cats, are just populist nonsense. If government is borrowing to fund long term capital projects, I really don't have a problem with this. I don't care who owns the railways, utility companies etc, I want to know how I am going to get a better service.

BigGully · Oct 31, 2018

BN41Albion said:
Absolutely. Comments like 'it means you can go on a holiday or two a year but doesn't mean you're rich...' make me angry.

To billions of people around the world, simply owning a washing machine would make you rich in their eyes. Owning over 50k and being able to live the lifestyle that affords (or even over 25/30k a year) would make you extremely rich in billions of people's eyes.

Some depressing comments on this thread.

But the question was clearly do we feel 'rich' in a southern English context, if it had said do you feel lucky compared to other less privileged nations, communities or individuals then the responses would have been different.

Why do you find it so difficult to interpret the obvious, you must be constantly depressed for mostly the wrong reasons.

Change at Barnham · Oct 31, 2018

To put this into context you need another poll asking: How much disposable income are you left with each month (or year)?

DJ NOBO · Oct 31, 2018

B-right-on said:
My brother in law says I'm rich bcs I earn over £50k a year (Just) and i should be taxed more. I work my @rse off every day outside in all weathers, boiling sun, snow, 30mph driven rain etc.. I take 2 weeks off a year and had 3 days sick in 10+ years. Being self employed i can't afford not to.

At 47 he's still living at home, works 10 hrs a week, supported by my MIL and plays hours a day on his X Box etc.

People like that just p1ss me off. Get off your @rse and work. Employed him to help me many years ago. Didn't last long.

And so i should be taxed more to fund his lifestyle? I have a nice house because i earned it, not because it was given to me. I support my own mother, bought her a car, washing machine etc.. when hers broke and she couldn't afford one.

Cracking up at the thought of your 47yo bil in his pants, sitting in the lounge playing play station. Sweet Jesus. That is pathetic

Weststander · Oct 31, 2018

CheeseRolls said:
"This from [MENTION=37204]the[/MENTION]IFS is jaw-dropping: "Health spending will have risen from 23% of public service spending in 2000 to 29% in 2010, and is set to reach 38% by 2023-24". Are we making a rational choice in reconfiguring the state as essentially a giant health service and little else?" Quote from a Peston tweet yesterday, which is thought provoking.

How can you pay more?
Who should pick up the rest of the tab?
Don't care someone else's problem?

As a number of people have said, assets are the true test of wealth not income, particularly if income is measured over a short period, like 12 months.

As someone who built a nice extension on the back of my property, I should really be paying more council tax, which if it were overhauled would make a massive difference to the care crisis facing local councils. I would also like to see some of this burden shared with property owners rather than just tenants. A new school, park, doctor's surgery in your area, will provide long term benefits, way beyond a short term tenancy and will positively impact the property value. If the net effect here is to dis incentivise people from becoming landlords, again I think this is generally a positive thing.

There should be a switch towards taxing wealth, nothing drastic, but a gradual change in emphasis, from constantly asking middle income earners to pick up the tab for everything.
I would like to see some changes to the whole IR35 self employed thing, specifically the long term impact of paying yourself a tiny salary and big dividends. How about a 5 year limit, if you don't employ anyone outside of your immediate family in the business, your tax relief diminishes?
Not a popular one I am sure, but fuel duty probably needs to start rising again, if there is to be a true incentive for people to switch to less polluting forms of transport.

I get the whole don't care thing. Everything from the cut government net borrowing to zero story sold by the Tories from 2010 onwards, through to the labour renationalisation plans that will punish fat cats, are just populist nonsense. If government is borrowing to fund long term capital projects, I really don't have a problem with this. I don't care who owns the railways, utility companies etc, I want to know how I am going to get a better service.

"IR35" - it's important here not to conflate two entirely different situations:

1. Personal service companies are tax avoidance, which the IR35 legislation tackles directly. The individual is to all intents an employee (under the very well established badges of trade under case law). The top company is avoiding employers NI at 13.8% and employers obligations, and the individual is avoiding NI/PAYE as well as wrongly gaining tax relief on an array of expenses.

No need to worry about a 5 year cap, it's zero days already. The only remaining issue is that engagers and individuals are lying to avoid tax.

2. Other small companies run by millions of individuals, couples, familiies and colleagues; in every sector possible. Even John McDonnell has no intenttion of penalising these business owners with more personal taxes. You won't be aware that the Coalition/Tory's brought in a new tax bands/rates on their dividends, catching all dividend income bar a tiny annual allowance. You also have to be careful when comparing the tax/NI of an employee versus someone running a small company - the ltd co example is taxed in two ways with corporation tax first, then income tax (using the recent tax rates and bands) on the indivduals dividends drawn.

Herr Tubthumper · Oct 31, 2018

CheeseRolls said:
"This from [MENTION=37204]the[/MENTION]IFS is jaw-dropping: "Health spending will have risen from 23% of public service spending in 2000 to 29% in 2010, and is set to reach 38% by 2023-24". Are we making a rational choice in reconfiguring the state as essentially a giant health service and little else?" Quote from a Peston tweet yesterday, which is thought provoking.

How can you pay more?
Who should pick up the rest of the tab?
Don't care someone else's problem?

Jaw dropping? The UK is well behind in health expenditure and the primary reason the NHS is the way it is. In Germany health is 10% of GDP and Germany has long had the most restriction-free and consumer-oriented healthcare system in Europe. Patients are allowed to seek almost any type of care they wish whenever they want it. I never have to wait for anything here and you can slot anything in at a date of your choice. This comes at a price though, your public contribution will be 15.5%, 7.3% of which is covered by the employer. But you will not have to flog my home to pay for health care when you’re old. Preston’s comments have no context

So, to answer your questions in order:
From my pay packet
All of us, I measure society on its ability and will to help the less fortunate.
No, that’s selfish.

Commander · Oct 31, 2018

BN41Albion said:
Absolutely. Comments like 'it means you can go on a holiday or two a year but doesn't mean you're rich...' make me angry.

To billions of people around the world, simply owning a washing machine would make you rich in their eyes. Owning over 50k and being able to live the lifestyle that affords (or even over 25/30k a year) would make you extremely rich in billions of people's eyes.

Some depressing comments on this thread.

In the grand scheme things 99% of this country is 'rich'. But that's not the context of the original question, it's based on the UK only as it came about from the budget. The majority of people who have voted in this poll earn more than £50K, so from those numbers it's pretty clear that this figure doesn't make you rich.

Biscuit · Oct 31, 2018

Commander said:
In the grand scheme things 99% of this country is 'rich'. But that's not the context of the original question, it's based on the UK only as it came about from the budget. The majority of people who have voted in this poll earn more than £50K, so from those numbers it's pretty clear that this figure doesn't make you rich.

Word.

Lush · Oct 31, 2018

It depends what you mean by rich. Last year I was lucky enough to wangle a three day a week job.

I earn less than £50k, but I am a lot richer in time. Life is good.

Gwylan · Oct 31, 2018

Commander said:
The majority of people who have voted in this poll earn more than £50K,

That's an astonishing statistic. The average income in the UK is £27,200 so that means most of the people who responded earn twice the national salary. If that's representative of the NSC audience, then that's demographic. Advertisers will be biting Bozza's hand off

Exile · Oct 31, 2018

Gwylan said:
That's an astonishing statistic. The average income in the UK is £27,200 so that means most of the people who responded earn twice the national salary. If that's representative of the NSC audience, then that's demographic. Advertisers will be biting Bozza's hand off

Maybe people who are doing well, are more likely to have voted, than those earning less?
Maybe people lied?

Weststander · Oct 31, 2018

Gwylan said:
That's an astonishing statistic. The average income in the UK is £27,200 so that means most of the people who responded earn twice the national salary. If that's representative of the NSC audience, then that's demographic. Advertisers will be biting Bozza's hand off

There was a recent supporters income, by club, survey and results. Discussed on NSC. The Albion fans income figure was high.

Also, perhaps the NSC poll sample would be unrepresentative with a whole load of those actively typing aged 40 upwards, in a good earning period of their career cycles?

Commander · Oct 31, 2018

Gwylan said:
That's an astonishing statistic. The average income in the UK is £27,200 so that means most of the people who responded earn twice the national salary. If that's representative of the NSC audience, then that's demographic. Advertisers will be biting Bozza's hand off

But if the question was "How much disposable income do you have?" then I imagine the answers wouldn't be much different to other parts of the country, so it's all relative.

Scunner · Oct 31, 2018

Generally anyone who is PAYE is not rich. Wealth is derived from property or business equity and not income.

Salaried income services debt, usually. Most business owners take a relatively small salary and top up income via lower tax dividends.

This is why Labour's plan to increase tax on PAYE employees is so flawed, and will lead to a lower tax yield for the Exchequer because higher earning PAYE employees will seek ways to divert income.

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