Extremism - both sides

jon12345 · Jun 25, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
As the old saying goes

“If a person is not a liberal when he is twenty, he has no heart; if he is not a conservative when he is forty, he has no head."

It's easy to be idealistic when one is young and free of responsibility. When one is older and burdened with what life entails it's hard not to surrender the idealism for pragmatism.

This guy has done some research on peoples voting habits and found that people are likely to vote due to there personality and the reason people become more conservative as they age is that they gain more Conscientiousness. Which ties in with your statement. He has a lot of interesting stuff on youtube here's one you might find interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo3gOoOSdhY

Tyrone Biggums · Jun 25, 2017

As always Voltaire said it best...

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."

Mackenzie · Jun 25, 2017

jon12345 said:
This guy has done some research on peoples voting habits and found that people are likely to vote due to there personality and the reason people become more conservative as they age is that they gain more Conscientiousness. Which ties in with your statement. He has a lot of interesting stuff on youtube here's one you might find interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo3gOoOSdhY

I've become less conservative as I've aged.

Buzzer · Jun 25, 2017

midnight_rendezvous said:
Some 'extremism' depends on your POV. For example, left 'extremism' gave us the weekend and women the right to vote

I hasten to add I condemn all violence and extremism on both sides of the political spectrum.

And "right extremism" gave us capitalism and you can thank it for being able to have that computer and phone that you use to post onto NSC.

Edit - and Emmeline Pankhurst was a Tory who hated what she perceived as Bolshevism.

Tyrone Biggums · Jun 25, 2017

jon12345 said:
This guy has done some research on peoples voting habits and found that people are likely to vote due to there personality and the reason people become more conservative as they age is that they gain more Conscientiousness. Which ties in with your statement. He has a lot of interesting stuff on youtube here's one you might find interesting.

I've been following him for a while, though most of the stuff I've watched has been related to gender pronouns which seems to be how he came to the wider audience on youtube.

Tyrone Biggums · Jun 25, 2017

The issue now a days is conservatism is now just referred to as right wing. When the actions and ideals of the origins of conservatism were never extreme.

Ray Davies when he wrote Village Green Preservation Society was writing about those traditional conservatives. Those people weren't far right, they were simply traditionalists.

vegster · Jun 25, 2017

I work with a young lad in his early twenties who is quite forceful in his condemnation of the EU, any centre or left leaning politicians, LGBT people or their beliefs. He knows I am sort of centre/ left on most things and tend to head in the tolerance and understanding section in most discussions that we have.

He has sometimes said things that I find deeply offensive but I have merely said that " maybe you should rethink what you have just said ? ". He wanted to " Smash Corbyn's face in " on the basis that he is the leader of the Labour party, not because of any policies or statements by Corbyn, merely the fact that he exists. He has told me on many occasions of his strong held beliefs as a Creationist Christian which colours his LGBT views on same sex marriage and relationships yet freely admits that he and his, strongly Christian fiancé, go abroad for holidays and book rooms with twin beds yet immediately push them together for the week while they bonk like crazy.

He even says that if Jesus were alive today he would probably have more in common with the aims of the Labour Party than any other. I really struggle sometimes to even talk to him when he goes in to some rant about something in the news. Sometimes it seems he is The Daily Mail made human, however, he is still young and I'd like to think that slowly but surely I am moderating his extremity bit by bit. he even played the classic old pre election card " If Jeremy Corbyn wins I'm emigrating !" I merely said, " If you could emigrate what the bloody hell are you still doing here anyway ?"

He is work in progress and I like to think he will change, at least a little, but blanking him and not challenging his opinions is the worst possible option.

Timbo · Jun 25, 2017

Left wing, right wing, it all bores the absolute tits off me. Too much social media nowadays, everyone has to have an opinion and theirs is the only one that matters. It's all been the same for centuries, except the absolute bed wetting hand wringers would have us believe the world is about to end.

People have died by various forms forever. Jihadists are just the latest in an eternal line of nutters looking to polish a few of us off, and let's face it, they're pretty shit at it.

24 hour news channels are equally to blame. 3 days of describing any given tragedy constantly and about 6 hours in they have most people watching from behind their fingers with their cringworthy questioning of anyone within 3 miles of it.

Truth is, things are no different to any other time I can remember in my life, wether it's the IRA, mental Muslims or Michael Ryan, there's always somebody with a screw loose after you. And you would have to be immeasurably unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time so don't let things wind you up. Blocked on Facebook ffs.

Buzzer · Jun 25, 2017

vegster said:
He is work in progress and I like to think he will change, at least a little, but blanking him and not challenging his opinions is the worst possible option.

I'd agree and would probably do likewise and I reckon you'd do the same if he was an Antifa left-wing extremist.

I'd say we're all extremists with at least some of our views and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm staunchly anti-socialist in all its forms and pretty much unwavering about that. Lots of folks disagree with me and I'm okay with that and hope they're okay with my stance. And if your friend has extreme views on LGBT issues in a negative way then I guess because my views are the polar opposite then my views are also extremist. They almost certainly are to your workmate.

You're right though, with age comes more life experience and I hope a better understanding of the world. As someone who sits on the centre-right though, I'd say one big problem I come across often is the idea the default view that left-wing = morally good, right-wing = morally bad. It's the kind of thinking that allows adulation of Stalin and Mao to be socially acceptable rather than rightly demonised in the same way as Hitler.

Knocky's Nose · Jun 25, 2017

One of my employees said he'd voted Labour in the last election because he had student debt. When I asked him if there were any other reasons he said 'No'. I asked him how much he knew about the policies and aims of the other parties, he said 'nothing'. I asked him if he knew anything about Corbyn and his aims for the future... he said 'no'.

So, he voted Labour because they said they'd scrap student fees. That's it.

Another of my employees voted for Brexit. I asked why - he said 'cos I'm sick of these foreigners taking our jobs'. I explained he already had a job, and had he considered the wider implications of Brexit. He looked at me, in his Baldrick fashion, and said 'No - I don't know what they are'. He was in charge of sweeping the warehouse and packing the post by the way.

What we appear to have is a youth which has the power to vote, and doesn't use the power to think. Extremism seems to be for people who can't be arsed seeing everyone's point of view. It's too hard, so they can't be bothered.

Politics is a career, on the whole. Most of them will tell you the sky is dark brown if it can get them to where they want to be - they just want you to vote them in. Then, the promises can be renaged on. It's too late by then - you've already put the cross in the box and they've moved into their lovely new office. I don't trust any of them...

In essence though, far left views can't be paid for and appeal to the thick and lazy. Far right views treat people like crap and appeal to those looking to protect their wealth. I think Human nature and a spoonful of life experience makes people lean to the right as they look to protect what they've spent a lifetime accumulating for retirement - and the exuberance of youth makes younger people want what they haven't yet got - as soon as possible, hence the lean to the left.

I know I'm right.

Buzzer · Jun 25, 2017

Knocky's Nose said:
What we appear to have is a youth which has the power to vote, and doesn't use the power to think. Extremism seems to be for people who can't be arsed seeing everyone's point of view. It's too hard, so they can't be bothered

Old people can be extremist too, you know and middle-aged people are just as capable of voting for the most spurious of reasons whereas plenty of young adults show a remarkable maturity in their views.

And I disagree that extremism is for people who can't be bothered to consider other people's views. I really don't think it's because of any laziness of thought but that their convictions are so strong about what they believe that either they just can't understand the contra view and/or they think that the opposite view is so morally wrong.

Knocky's Nose · Jun 25, 2017

Buzzer said:
.....And I disagree that extremism is for people who can't be bothered to consider other people's views. I really don't think it's because of any laziness of thought but that their convictions are so strong about what they believe that either they just can't understand the contra view and/or they think that the opposite view is so morally wrong.

I get what you're saying. Is having strong convictions being too lazy to take on another view - or is it lack of intelligence that prohibits them from being able to see another point of view?

I take on board your point about old people though.

Buzzer · Jun 25, 2017

Knocky's Nose said:
I get what you're saying. Is having strong convictions being too lazy to take on another view - or is it lack of intelligence that prohibits them from being able to see another point of view?

I don't think it's lack of intelligence. I don't think anyone could claim that David Irving is anything other than extremely clever, likewise the late Eric Hobsbawm was a world-famous scholar but both have/had life-long extremist views. I think with some people it might be that they aren't too clever but with others it's all down to the strength of their personal convictions.

Is it PotG? · Jun 25, 2017

I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong - Bertrand Russell

studio150 · Jun 25, 2017

looney said:
They dont, they may try but they fail. you may learn this one day what with all your crap you serve up against people you disagree with.

Thanks for that informative and reasoned response, it is very much appreciated.

carlzeiss · Jun 25, 2017

Late seventies I wore a donkey jacket decorated with ANL , RAR , smash the torries and various punk band badges .

Now I have a daughter that believes that Teresa May is a racist and Jeremy Corbyn is the 2nd coming of Christ .

Still love the music though . :rock:

[yt]ArL94OjZSAU[/YT]

Buzzer · Jun 25, 2017

Is it PotG? said:
I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong - Bertrand Russell

The irony in that quote though was that Russell went much further than most in his beliefs and was imprisoned for his pacifism. That takes a lot of courage.

Sussex Nomad · Jun 25, 2017

My point still hasn't been answered, are the far left and the far right basically the same once they have power?

Is it PotG? · Jun 25, 2017

Sussex Nomad said:
My point still hasn't been answered, are the far left and the far right basically the same once they have power?

No.

Sussex Nomad · Jun 25, 2017

Is it PotG? said:
No.

Hmmmm ok, thanks for the explanation.

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