Froch vs Groves Sky 'Gloves are off' special this Sat

Withdean11 · May 22, 2014

Mr Banana said:
Foster accidentally grabbed him. He could and should have given a standing eight. Even if GG was about to get sparked - in the exchange you're talking about, Froch landed two clean shots, GG replied with one in between - he wasn't in worse trouble than Carl had been. It was inconsistent.

A standing eight count? - i think you have been watching too much amateur boxing!!

At no point in the fight did Carl turn away from George, looking at the floor as George did in the 9th. He stumbled onto the ref (and stumbled again once he let go). Certainly would not have seen any punches coming his way, which are the most dangerous punches. Howards job in there is to prevent the boxers from getting into serious trouble. Having free shots is high risk of this happening, had he had not stopped it, and George ended up in hospital, blame would have been placed on Howard Foster. Gerald Mcclellan springs to mind. As a professional boxer myself, i understand that no boxer wants to be stopped on their feet. We would not pull ourselves out of a fight, which is why the official in charge and our corner have the power to stop a fight.

As for the trouble Carl was in, in the first round. And he was clearly in trouble. It was a flash knockdown - no means to stop the fight. Although being outclassed in the following rounds, he never looked in too much trouble where George was allowed free shots on him.

Howard Foster is one of the top officials this country has, certainly more qualified to judge a situation like that than a bunch of fans. Next there will be Football fans telling the manager how it should be done..

It looked early, but in my opinion, only 5/10 seconds early.

Lenny Rider · May 22, 2014

Withdean11 said:
A standing eight count? - i think you have been watching too much amateur boxing!!

At no point in the fight did Carl turn away from George, looking at the floor as George did in the 9th. He stumbled onto the ref (and stumbled again once he let go). Certainly would not have seen any punches coming his way, which are the most dangerous punches. Howards job in there is to prevent the boxers from getting into serious trouble. Having free shots is high risk of this happening, had he had not stopped it, and George ended up in hospital, blame would have been placed on Howard Foster. Gerald Mcclellan springs to mind. As a professional boxer myself, i understand that no boxer wants to be stopped on their feet. We would not pull ourselves out of a fight, which is why the official in charge and our corner have the power to stop a fight.

As for the trouble Carl was in, in the first round. And he was clearly in trouble. It was a flash knockdown - no means to stop the fight. Although being outclassed in the following rounds, he never looked in too much trouble where George was allowed free shots on him.

Howard Foster is one of the top officials this country has, certainly more qualified to judge a situation like that than a bunch of fans. Next there will be Football fans telling the manager how it should be done..

It looked early, but in my opinion, only 5/10 seconds early.

So your prediction this time?

Mr Banana · May 22, 2014

Withdean11 said:
Certainly would not have seen any punches coming his way, which are the most dangerous punches. Howards job in there is to prevent the boxers from getting into serious trouble. Having free shots is high risk of this happening, had he had not stopped it, and George ended up in hospital, blame would have been placed on Howard Foster. Gerald Mcclellan springs to mind. As a professional boxer myself, i understand that no boxer wants to be stopped on their feet. We would not pull ourselves out of a fight, which is why the official in charge and our corner have the power to stop a fight.

It looked early, but in my opinion, only 5/10 seconds early.

Not to understate the McClellan disaster or the situations you describe, but I always think that's weak reasoning for stopping a world title fight early when the fighter in question was so clearly winning and had not really been in any trouble. The IBF ruled that Foster had misinterpreted GG covering up as being "in trouble". He saw everything.

red star portslade · May 22, 2014

I just wonder whether Groves has the temperament or discipline to just box clever for 12 rounds, instead of getting into a slugfest with Froch. If he can do, then I'd edge towards a Groves decision on the cards.

Tbh though, I just think Froch is going to come out fast (Bute-style) and try to put the fear of God into Groves and possibly force Groves to engage and change his game plan (I would have thought Fitzpatrick will be asking Groves to try and box his head off personally). If Froch gets his way, it could be an early night's work.

People keep harping on about this punch that floored Froch and yes, whilst it showed Groves carries power, it was just a prime example of Froch's naivety (which was his downfall going into that fight) in that he felt Groves simply wasn't good enough to polish his boots, and he just stood flat footed and was there to be tagged. The fact he got up and regrouped speaks volumes. I cannot see Froch making the same mistake re his footwork in the rematch.

Whilst I think Froch won the odd round before the 9th (still behind on the cards), it was only until the 9th that Froch finally showed his power in bunches and, quite simply, Groves couldn't handle it. Groves was also blowing out of his arse at that point and having thrown everything at Froch, Froch was just getting marginally stronger as the fight progressed.

Like I said, if Groves sticks to a smart gameplan then he can outbox Froch to a decision. If Froch can get him in a war, I think that favours Froch.

I've changed my mind a shitload of times already re the outcome of this, and that's what makes it such a great fight, however at the moment I'm leaning towards another Froch KO.

Ernest · May 22, 2014

Withdean11 said:
As a professional boxer myself,
.

Are you David Haye ?

Ernest · May 22, 2014

I have a feeling that Groves is egging on Froch with this talk of KO'ing him inside 3 rounds and instead will box him the way he did James Degale, very cautiously from the outside and pick off Froch with the jab.

My prediction is Groves on points after a fairly dull fight.

Withdean11 · May 22, 2014

Lenny Rider said:
So your prediction this time?

My prediction this time pretty much matches Red Star Portslade's words - I keep changing my mind. George needs a good start, we don't know how much that first round KD affected Carl last time. Was Carl unprepared last time due to him under estimating George? Or is he just over the hill. For me this is about which Carl Froch turns up, we know what Groves will bring.

I'm edging towards Carl Froch by KO, but that could change tomorrow :lolol:

Withdean11 · May 22, 2014

Mr Banana said:
Not to understate the McClellan disaster or the situations you describe, but I always think that's weak reasoning for stopping a world title fight early when the fighter in question was so clearly winning and had not really been in any trouble. The IBF ruled that Foster had misinterpreted GG covering up as being "in trouble". He saw everything.

I don't think a world title fight should looked at any differently. Nor do I think the judges cards should stop a referee from stepping in. I understand from a spectators point of view, we want to see the KO, a proper conclusion. But imagine a family member was the person between those ropes. No matter how big the occasion was, if the referee saw something which in his expert opinion, thought the boxer was in serious danger, would you like them to step in, or would you rather they stand back and wait?

Lenny Rider · May 24, 2014

Although, as she freely admits, with a very limited knowledge of boxing, Mrs Hart remembering the Haye/Fury cancellation, did ask the question last night what would happen if one of them (Froch or Groves) got injured at this stage?

Would Hearn bin the whole show or would he bring in Degale as a sub given that's he's in training for a big fight on the undercard?

Bit of a smaller scale I know but I seem to recall Collins pulled out of a title fight with Calzaghe in the last week in 1997 and they bought Eubank in.

Ernest · May 24, 2014

Lenny Rider said:
Although, as she freely admits, with a very limited knowledge of boxing, Mrs Hart remembering the Haye/Fury cancellation, did ask the question last night what would happen if one of them (Froch or Groves) got injured at this stage?

Would Hearn bin the whole show or would he bring in Degale as a sub given that's he's in training for a big fight on the undercard?

Bit of a smaller scale I know but I seem to recall Collins pulled out of a title fight with Calzaghe in the last week in 1997 and they bought Eubank in.

Froch has been known to pull out of fights but surely it is too late now as the gym work would have been done ? Anyway if one of them did the show would be cancelled as nobody would buy the PPV if the main event was cancelled

Lenny Rider · May 24, 2014

Ernest said:
Froch has been known to pull out of fights but surely it is too late now as the gym work would have been done ? Anyway if one of them did the show would be cancelled as nobody would buy the PPV if the main event was cancelled

But what about the live gate? If Hearn can get away with not having to refund nearly 80,000 punters surely he would do whatever he could?

Mr Banana · May 24, 2014

Lenny Rider said:
Although, as she freely admits, with a very limited knowledge of boxing, Mrs Hart remembering the Haye/Fury cancellation, did ask the question last night what would happen if one of them (Froch or Groves) got injured at this stage?

Would Hearn bin the whole show or would he bring in Degale as a sub given that's he's in training for a big fight on the undercard?

Bit of a smaller scale I know but I seem to recall Collins pulled out of a title fight with Calzaghe in the last week in 1997 and they bought Eubank in.

Carl might pull out. Sort of surprised he hasn't already. The poor man is going to get absolutely pasted. But it's apparently worth £8 million to him. Does he need the money?

Ernest · May 24, 2014

Lenny Rider said:
But what about the live gate? If Hearn can get away with not having to refund nearly 80,000 punters surely he would do whatever he could?

If you paid £1500 for a ringside seat to see Froch v Groves then you wouldn't want to see Groves v Degale in its place, it's not like the undercard has a stand out fight that you could promote in its place.

Funny enough Groves v Degale was promoted to the main event in that fight but Wembley Stadium is a lot different from the O2 etc

Lenny Rider · May 25, 2014

So who do we think won the TV debate?

Froch or Groves?

kevtherev · May 25, 2014

Lenny Rider said:
So who do we think won the TV debate?

Froch or Groves?

Groves looked like a man who has been worked out. No doubt he got under Froch's skin first time round, it was there for all to see. But when Carl just stared right through him last night, it looked to me like Groves knew he had lost his edge. Groves looked a worried man to me and might he well do. He is going to get beat badly I think.

Arthur · May 25, 2014

Lenny Rider said:
So who do we think won the TV debate?

Froch or Groves?

No idea.....I got half an hour of Real Madrid celebrations when I've just sat down to watch it this morning. I thought Sky+ was intelligent enough to work out when programs get moved?

Oh well it's on again tomorrow.

Hillian1 · May 25, 2014

Arthur said:
No idea.....I got half an hour of Real Madrid celebrations when I've just sat down to watch it this morning. I thought Sky+ was intelligent enough to work out when programs get moved?

Oh well it's on again tomorrow.

Really?

Won't even bother looking at mine then as I did the same.

Arthur · May 25, 2014

Hillian1 said:
Really?

Won't even bother looking at mine then as I did the same.

Yup, repeated at 7pm tomorrow on SS1 and is available on demand by the looks of it.

Lenny Rider · May 25, 2014

kevtherev said:
Groves looked like a man who has been worked out. No doubt he got under Froch's skin first time round, it was there for all to see. But when Carl just stared right through him last night, it looked to me like Groves knew he had lost his edge. Groves looked a worried man to me and might he well do. He is going to get beat badly I think.

Worry or increased confidence? I've watched it twice now and still can't work it out, is Froch overconfident again, or as Groves says he now knows he can win rather than believe. Whatever I think it's going to be call sic and possibly one the greatest sporting events in recent history.

It's a shame the sports gone down the Ppv/sky route because if this fight was free to air you'd have an audience to rival the Benn/Eubank 2 figures, then again that's how the fighters get the increased purses now.

Does anyone know how much each they are getting?

Mr Icicle Boots · May 25, 2014

This fight really has divided opinion but i tend to subscribe to the comments Darren Barker recently made on Sky. He said that, based on the first fight, he didn't think Groves could fight a better fight and that Froch couldn't fight a worse one (Particularly in the first 6 rounds) So if Froch improves on that performance he could see him winning comfortably. So me and my £20 will go with that advice.

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