General Election 2017

wellquickwoody · May 12, 2017

attila said:
Best manifesto I have ever read. Of course 5 unelected press billionaire owners will tell their puppet journalists to pour scorn on it, of course there will be cries of 'Where's the money going to come from?'
I'm not sure that has much traction any more though....
A majority voted for Brexit out of a gut emotion and conviction, despite the fact that the bankers' mouthpieces told us over and over again it will wreck the economy.
Whether or not it will, we'll see. But people weren't bothered, they followed their beliefs. That is what we are doing with this manifesto. I'm sure it'll be costed and all that, but it's the same kind of economic risk as Brexit, no more.
And look what happened there...

1. Blame the press.

2. Ignore how it will be paid for.

3. Go against all available data and cling onto the dream of power.

Thank God this election will be over in a few weeks and Labour can tear itself apart and the centre left can start to build a credible opposition from the ground up

hans kraay fan club · May 12, 2017

beorhthelm said:
I read that the IFS estimates there's £65bn spending in the draft manifesto. that's rather a lot, and more than can be covered with reversing cuts to/increasing corporation tax and a new 80k+ bracket.

A third of it can come from Boris' bus. That's a good start.

Bit more tax on the top earners, extra corporation tax, get the Starbucks, etc to pay their share, and scrap Trident.

Anything else?

wellquickwoody · May 12, 2017

midnight_rendezvous said:
Interesting if indeed true...

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/05/05...sive-blow-tories-election-campaign-reporting/

But that Corbyn...

More left wing fake news.

CHAPPERS · May 12, 2017

Corbyn is coming across pretty well currently I reckon, and I'm not a huge fan. Doing well on the front foot.

Diablo · May 12, 2017

CHAPPERS said:
Corbyn is coming across pretty well currently I reckon, and I'm not a huge fan. Doing well on the front foot.

Are you being serious

He`s coming across as a clueless idiot !!!

Stato · May 12, 2017

It could be a very clever move from the Labour Party. Knowing that they won't win the election, but having realised that May has been stealing policies from the last LP manifesto, they have put some socialism in this one. You never know.

CHAPPERS · May 12, 2017

Diablo said:
Are you being serious He`s coming across as a clueless idiot !!!

How so?

attila · May 12, 2017

wellquickwoody said:
1. Blame the press.

2. Ignore how it will be paid for.

3. Go against all available data and cling onto the dream of power.

Thank God this election will be over in a few weeks and Labour can tear itself apart and the centre left can start to build a credible opposition from the ground up[/QUOTE

Why was it alright for the Brexit campaign to say 'this isn't about economics, it's about gut feelings' but not for us to do the same?
Media bias, that's why. Same as May capping energy bills is 'just' and Miliband doing it is 'Marxist'

I blame the press in the same way I'd blame the man with a gun whom I saw shoot someone for killing him. They are the perpetrators: a biased, cynical, clinical operation owned by 5 unelected billionaires who print the headlines and stories they do because people believe them. I know they do: many of my own extended family do.

I am no more clinging to the illusion of power than I am that we are likely to win the league next season. But I know that many of us were standing up against all the odds for what we believed in when we fought to save the Albion, and that's what we who support this manifesto are doing now.

Lower West Stander · May 12, 2017

midnight_rendezvous said:
You can say what you, but that doesn't change the fact that in 52 per cent of articles about JC, his own views are not included – while in a further 22 per cent they were “present but taken out of context” or otherwise distorted. The press are more interested in character assassination than his views.

Nick Ferrari didn't have to do much in the Diane Abbott interview did he really....

Simster · May 12, 2017

wellquickwoody said:
1. Blame the press.

2. Ignore how it will be paid for.

3. Go against all available data and cling onto the dream of power.

Thank God this election will be over in a few weeks and Labour can tear itself apart and the centre left can start to build a credible opposition from the ground up

Firstly, I will say that I won't be voting Labour because a) too many of the people in their front benches appear utterly incompetent and have been promoted beyond their capability simply because they are yes men and b) because I have an issue with any government that insists on taxing earned income at more than 50% but I really can't let this go.

1) There is nothing wrong with blaming the press. Nothing that [MENTION=528]attila[/MENTION] has said is wrong - they are a law unto themselves and manipulate the masses to suit their own agenda. It is shameful that media ownership has not been curbed because it can't be right that a handful of billionaires are afforded so much power.

2) There are economic arguments that suggest borrowing your way out of trouble can work, just as long as it is controlled and costed. Even after the sub-prime bust of the noughties, it is arguable whether we were really in financial trouble as we were still a long way from the 70s, a time when the level of borrowing was high (not a problem in itself), and constant strikes threatened our ability to pay it back (a major issue).

And there is a flip side of this which often gets completely ignored. What happens to the money we save by not spending under the Tories? When I was 20, I went to university like quite a lot of people. I had a grant (£800 a term) and fees paid for. That lot amounted to £20k I should imagine, and is something we saw all over the place.

So I therefore ask the question, what has happened to all that money we are saving on state-paid student fees?

3) What point are you trying to make? We all know available data means sod all in the current climate.

The Clamp · May 12, 2017

Corbyn will have his day. I do think people will realise he is what this country needs. But they will realise too late. Literally ANYTHING right now is better than the insidious, U-Turning, treacherous old harpee, May and her merry band of profiteers. ********s.

Mellor 3 Ward 4 · May 12, 2017

hans kraay fan club said:
A third of it can come from Boris' bus. That's a good start.

Bit more tax on the top earners, extra corporation tax, get the Starbucks, etc to pay their share, and scrap Trident.

Anything else?

I thought Trident was being renewed?

GT49er · May 12, 2017

CHAPPERS said:
Corbyn is coming across pretty well currently I reckon, and I'm not a huge fan. Doing well on the front foot.

Yes, probably a fairly typical view of those who are broadly pro-Labour, but aren't likely to vote for the current shambles, even if they have got some very attractive aims in their manifesto.

Diablo said:
Are you being serious He`s coming across as a clueless idiot !!!

And, equally probably a fairly typical view of the generally pro-Tory voter. Also, the view of the Daily Mail (and presumably Daily Mail readers)!

I suspect neither view will be changed much by discussion - reasonable and well thought out or otherwise - and the Tories will win the election quite comfortably

CHAPPERS · May 12, 2017

GT49er said:
Yes, probably a fairly typical view of those who are broadly pro-Labour, but aren't likely to vote for the current shambles, even if they have got some very attractive aims in their manifesto.

And, equally probably a fairly typical view of the generally pro-Tory voter. Also, the view of the Daily Mail (and presumably Daily Mail readers)!

I suspect neither view will be changed much by discussion - reasonable and well thought out or otherwise - and the Tories will win the election quite comfortably

Pretty spot on.

attila · May 12, 2017

Narrow majority for left of centre, here as nationally.

CHAPPERS · May 12, 2017

Simster said:
And there is a flip side of this which often gets completely ignored. What happens to the money we save by not spending under the Tories? When I was 20, I went to university like quite a lot of people. I had a grant (£800 a term) and fees paid for. That lot amounted to £20k I should imagine, and is something we saw all over the place.

So I therefore ask the question, what has happened to all that money we are saving on state-paid student fees?
.

You might also ask the Tories what happened to all that North Sea oil money as well.

midnight_rendezvous · May 12, 2017

wellquickwoody said:
More left wing fake news.

As opposed to the right wing, quick look! *insert JC character assination here to distract from what the Tories are doing*

trueblue · May 12, 2017

heathgate said:
Already the top 1% pay 30% of the tax take, not sure how far you can go with that and remain competitive. As for corporation tax, either you want us to have successful and investment attractive industry, or you don't.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

The top 1% can afford it.

Dorset Seagull · May 12, 2017

I wouldn't worry too much about the press if this article is factual as it won't be them deciding our futures in future. Long read but interesting and worth it

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...eat-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy

simmo · May 12, 2017

CHAPPERS said:
Corbyn is coming across pretty well currently I reckon, and I'm not a huge fan. Doing well on the front foot.

Not doing so well on the BBC camera man's foot, though

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