[Politics] Brexit

CHAPPERS said:

It's for everyone, including a huge amount of Business leaders, who seem to think leaving the single market, as is the governments want (though not voted for in the referendum), is a very damaging move, to do.

Wow, that;s a terrible sentence, gramatically.

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CHAPPERS said:

Yeah, let's just let Theresa May and her merry band of wankers steamroll through any policy she wants because 'Brexit means Brexit' after all.

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CHAPPERS said:

It's for everyone, including a huge amount of Business leaders, who seem to think leaving the single market, as is the governments want (though not voted for in the referendum), is a very damaging move, to do.

Wow, that;s a terrible sentence, gramatically.

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NooBHA said:

All of this is irrelevant NOW

I was one of the BIGGEST PRO REMAIN and still am

However, I am even BIGGER on standing by the Democratic Procedures of the VOTE.

We voted to leave and we have to stick with that, good or bad so we just need to swallow what we have planted and grown. Lets just get on with it now and try and build a better economy, although the Leave Campaigners didn't really have any alternative policies lined up they need to start finding them now

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Mo Gosfield said:

...and did any of the Remain campaigners even contemplate what would happen when the EU collapses, which every student of history knows is inevitable.

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Mo Gosfield said:

...and did any of the Remain campaigners even contemplate what would happen when the EU collapses, which every student of history knows is inevitable.

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Diego Napier said:

You start off well and I'm in complete agreement with you on Cameron however, you swiftly descend into a load of old hyperbole based on a very selective use of facts.

Let's try and paint a more accurate picture by looking at the voting in more detail (probably using the same reference website as you). Since 1999 Britain has voted No 56 times, Abstain 70 times and Yes 2466 times on EU Laws. In other words Britain has "won" 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time and been on the losing side 2% of the time.

You use the phrase "we have been outvoted" but it's really not that clear cut. Britain is represented by both government ministers in the council and by directly elected MEPs. It's relatively common for a government minister to vote No to a measure that many British MEPs support. On several occasions a UK minister has voted No to a measure supported by a majority of British MEPs, including those from the minister's own party. In addition, there have been occasions when the UK government has opposed an EU law supported by the administrations in Edinburgh, Cardiff & Belfast. So who is "we"?

Perhaps you would be more plausible if you illustrated your point with one or two UK government defeats in the EU parliament that have materially impacted your daily life. Perhaps one that has curtailed your freedom, or made you poorer, or shortened your life or made you less safe. You know, something worth really getting steamed up about.

Whether a decision is made in Brussels or Westminster is of little consequence to the ordinary person and will have minimal affect on them. Someone once said "voting is the opiate of the masses". I'd go further; democracy is better than most other religions at maintaining civil order but assuming that exercising your democratic right will materially affect your life is a delusion actively encouraged by those individuals and corporations who really wield power. "Regaining control", "Sovereignty", "Brussels bureaucrats", "EU technocrats", "Independence" are rallying-cry buzzwords ardently echoed by those expecting Brexit to invoke some sort of radical change to their daily lives. They will be disappointed.

Your concluding sentence is at best grandiloquently emotive twaddle and at worst, Good Grief!

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pastafarian said:

I would disagree with this on every level.
Its incredibly important. It’s the main reason for leaving this institution.
It strikes at the whole concept of self governance.

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Mo Gosfield said:

If I have at least got it right about Cameron's ' red card ' deal and the implications of that, then the many millions who want nothing to do with being part of an agenda to create a European superstate, will be highly delighted.

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Diego Napier said:

And what direct benefit will you derive from 100% Westminster as opposed to, being generous, say 95% Westminster and 5% Brussels?

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pb21 said:

I suspect this is linked to your point about democracy being an opiate of the masses.

The idea of democracy alleviates some kind of existential angst, the closer the power appears to be, the closer you believe you are to being in control.

Of course that’s not really the case in this instance, but I suspect that’s what some people are inclined to feel. They will receive a dose of methadone whilst expecting the poppy.

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Diego Napier said:

I imagine that millions of people who voted Remain want nothing to do with being part of an agenda to create a European superstate.

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Diego Napier said:

I imagine that millions of people who voted Remain want nothing to do with being part of an agenda to create a European superstate.

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Diego Napier said:

And what direct benefit will you derive from 100% Westminster as opposed to, being generous, say 95% Westminster and 5% Brussels?

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London Irish said:

Sterling taking a dive again, if anyone's interested. Full on foreign exchange crisis approaching, from "the party of economic competence"

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larus said:

And that's the problem, Europe is on the way to a superstate. Did you miss the announcement of plans for a European Army which conveniently appeared after the referendum, although this was denied during the campaign.

Europe has moved so far from what we first entered in 1975, and the elites want to ignore the will of the people There is a lot of dissatisfaction across swathes of Europe, and I ignore what the elite class say (i.e. Holland, Merkel, Junker etc.) as they want to cement control into un-elected institutions and not be accountable.

Look at the times they have made countries vote again in referendums (as they made the wrong choice), and then they want to penalise us for having the audacity to want to determine our own laws. They are on the run as they know that the 'glory days' of the west are over and they are getting ever more inward looking and protectionism. The social model is unaffordable, and some countries are doomed to eventual failure (Italy, Greece).

I feel we will be well out of this, and I accept that there will be short-term problems, however, the amount of bleating going on on here because of the market reaction to May saying we will be triggering Article 50 by March 2017 is truly pathetic. Markets react and they aren't sensible. The fundamentals of the UK economy are strong as has been PROVED by the raft of recent statistics, yet sterling has taken a hammering because of an event about 30 months away. This will be forgotten about by next month when the reality of the new President of the US sinks in.

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pastafarian said:

I see no benefit in removing law making powers from westminster and placing these in Brussels.
13% of Acts and Statutory Instruments are influenced from EU. This influence rises to 62% when you include EU regulations.
I wouldnt even find your alleged 5% acceptable.

If i wanted one of these laws changed or i ran a protest group to repeal one of these laws who do i lobby? Who has the influence to initiate change?

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