Fiscal Failings from Labour Again

vegster · Apr 23, 2017

It's amazing how the Tories still manage to convince so many that they are the party of fiscal probity. They always manage to lay the blame on the Labour Party for whatever benefit cut or tax increase they say "Have" to impose to balance the books. A recession caused by American banks has been blamed on Labour and somehow recovered thanks to cutting benefits and services that have hit the poorest and weakest in society.

Yet, somehow, despite this, and selling off whatever family silver is left in public ownership they still get people to believe they know what they are doing !

Yet somehow Mrs May espouses that she wants a society that works of everyone and in order to achieve this the cuts to education, social care and welfare will continue. How does that work then Mrs May ? lets just keep hitting the poorest and weakest and then nearly everyone else in the form of reductions in council services and social care. Yet, when Jeremy Corbyn supports the low paid, the disabled and those at the lowest end of society he is ridiculed ?

bernster · Apr 23, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
I say this partly in jest but is it such a bad idea? Maybe the vote should be earned instead of a birth right? Maybe a simple test where people have to show a reasonable understanding of certain things is the way forward? After all, cars in the hands of unqualified drivers are dangerous. The same can be said of the ballot box.

It's an awful idea a very weak analogy and shows a level of snobbishness that seems all to common in modern day metropolitan lefties

Dorset Seagull · Apr 23, 2017

vegster said:
It's amazing how the Tories still manage to convince so many that they are the party of fiscal probity. They always manage to lay the blame on the Labour Party for whatever benefit cut or tax increase they say "Have" to impose to balance the books. A recession caused by American banks has been blamed on Labour and somehow recovered thanks to cutting benefits and services that have hit the poorest and weakest in society.

Yet, somehow, despite this, and selling off whatever family silver is left in public ownership they still get people to believe they know what they are doing !

Yet somehow Mrs May espouses that she wants a society that works of everyone and in order to achieve this the cuts to education, social care and welfare will continue. How does that work then Mrs May ? lets just keep hitting the poorest and weakest and then nearly everyone else in the form of reductions in council services and social care. Yet, when Jeremy Corbyn supports the low paid, the disabled and those at the lowest end of society he is ridiculed ?

Much of that makes a lot of sense but a £10 an hour minimum wage does not support the low paid it just makes a lot of them out of a job

Hampster Gull · Apr 23, 2017

Buzzer said:
"Partly in jest". I've heard it all now, a self-proclaimed socialist who wants to remove the universal suffrage that took centuries to win with the obvious effect that those worst-off and in the poorest areas will make make up the vast majority of this new underclass. Maybe bring in eugenics too because the lower classes do breed like flies and a lot of them don't contribute much to society. Just keep enough so that we've all got part-time cleaners and someone to collect the rubbish every fortnight. That's straight out of 1984. A lumpenproletariat fed with booze, cheap music and the lottery and not to trouble their tiny little minds with decisions about who they want running their country.

Jesus wept, the utter arrogance of someone who thinks that their vote is more important than another person who isn't as clever as them and that the least educated should lose their rights all together. The disbelief that a socialist believes that this is worth considering.

The Labour party under Corbyn is a party lead by the Islington Metropolitan elite and for me nothing to do with the working classes across the country. The communist elites ruled from above not for the people but for themselves

vegster · Apr 23, 2017

Dorset Seagull said:
Much of that makes a lot of sense but a £10 an hour minimum wage does not support the low paid it just makes a lot of them out of a job

£10 an hour equates to £400 a week which subsequently equates to £20,800 a year, over £5K a year LESS than the average wage PA of £26,500.

Buzzer · Apr 23, 2017

vegster said:
It's amazing how the Tories still manage to convince so many that they are the party of fiscal probity.

The answer is quite simple. There may well be huge reservations about them and I agree with you completely about how the weakest have borne the brunt of the cuts but it's not a question of who do you trust but rather who do you trust the most. Hammond is up against McDonnell who, if not an out-and-out Marxist is clearly a fellow traveller.

It's utterly ridiculous that any poll ratings of the incumbent government get near 50%, it should be nearer 30% but that's the regard that the UK electorate have for Corbyn and McDonnell. Corbyn's clearly a nice chap but he's an activist and a terrible party leader. If the Tories were facing a pair such as Alan Johnson and Chuck Umunna at the despatch box then there would be a strong possibility of a Labour victory.

Corbyn's leadership and the power-shift in the party has been a huge vanity project. At least take some comfort that by having an election now there may well be a chance of a decent stab of winning an election in 2022 rather than waiting until 2025 by which time a lot of talented people will have left Parliament.

Dorset Seagull · Apr 23, 2017

vegster said:
£10 an hour equates to £400 a week which subsequently equates to £20,800 a year, over £5K a year LESS than the average wage PA of £26,500.

I think you are missing the point. Many small businesses are run by people who themselves earn less than the minimum wage and are only in a position to pay the minimum wage as it currently stands. Many employees in this business are, for whatever reason, able to survive by earning the current minimum wage so are happy to be fully employed and earning what they need. By increasing the minimum wage to £10 those businesses are unsustainable and would therefore need to either make staff redundant or close altogether. The end result would be more unemployment and more people relying on state benefits.

There seems to be a misconception that all business owners, including those of small and medium businesses, are filthy rich and taking advantage of the people they employ. The reality is that this is not the case and the small businesses that are the backbone of our economy need supporting in order to continue to provide employment to a large proportion of the population. Oh and just to add insult to injury let's have another 4 bank holidays.....I wonder who will be expected to pay for that!

DataPoint · Apr 23, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
How on earth did you infer this?

I didn't! You did.

Chicken Run · Apr 23, 2017

Ernest said:
Why don't you start one and predict what majority Maggie U Turn May will get ?

Why would I do that? Despite what you might think I don't think she'll get half of perhaps what she's hoping! But then I'm cleverer than you!

vegster · Apr 23, 2017

Dorset Seagull said:
I think you are missing the point. Many small businesses are run by people who themselves earn less than the minimum wage and are only in a position to pay the minimum wage as it currently stands. Many employees in this business are, for whatever reason, able to survive by earning the current minimum wage so are happy to be fully employed and earning what they need. By increasing the minimum wage to £10 those businesses are unsustainable and would therefore need to either make staff redundant or close altogether. The end result would be more unemployment and more people relying on state benefits.

There seems to be a misconception that all business owners, including those of small and medium businesses, are filthy rich and taking advantage of the people they employ. The reality is that this is not the case and the small businesses that are the backbone of our economy need supporting in order to continue to provide employment to a large proportion of the population. Oh and just to add insult to injury let's have another 4 bank holidays.....I wonder who will be expected to pay for that!

I'm not sure that small and medium businesses actually form the backbone of the economy, I'm pretty sure that your inference of small artisan independent businesses propping up our economy is misguided. Have a look at the generic shops on most town and suburban high streets, the same national or global brands make up much of our economy. Much of this based on low or minimum wages.

As for bank holidays, it won't make much difference to me as I work most of them at normal time anyway, in fact. last Christmas I was told that Christmas Day and Boxing Day came out of my holiday entitlement for the year...... I said that that is not fair , I said " OK then, I will come in to work then " and was told that I could not come in to work as the shop was closed !!

GoldWithFalmer · Apr 23, 2017

vegster said:
I'm not sure that small and medium businesses actually form the backbone of the economy, I'm pretty sure that your inference of small artisan independent businesses propping up our economy is misguided. Have a look at the generic shops on most town and suburban high streets, the same national or global brands make up much of our economy. Much of this based on low or minimum wages.

As for bank holidays, it won't make much difference to me as I work most of them at normal time anyway, in fact. last Christmas I was told that Christmas Day and Boxing Day came out of my holiday entitlement for the year...... I said that that is not fair , I said " OK then, I will come in to work then " and was told that I could not come in to work as the shop was closed !!

SME's (small medium enterprise)make up a very large proportion of the economy,surprising how many home workers,people operating out of their garden shed/offices,hidden multiple occupied buildings with short/medium term let's are out there,its what the postman would tell you..

As for holidays,legal but a touch unfair.....

Soulman · Apr 23, 2017

vegster said:
I

As for bank holidays, it won't make much difference to me as I work most of them at normal time anyway, in fact. last Christmas I was told that Christmas Day and Boxing Day came out of my holiday entitlement for the year...... I said that that is not fair , I said " OK then, I will come in to work then " and was told that I could not come in to work as the shop was closed !!

Perhaps it is time to start looking for another job.

GoldWithFalmer · Apr 23, 2017

Soulman said:
Perhaps it is time to start looking for another job.

Easier said than done,especially in the current climate to be fair.....

vegster · Apr 23, 2017

Soulman said:
Perhaps it is time to start looking for another job.

I'd love to but not much around for someone of my age with zero qualifications other than on job experience and being a good worker....18 months ago I got through to interview stage for a job earning £19 k a year including shift allowances, then was given the bombshell that it was only a one year contract despite the company being in existence for 50 odd years and being a market leader in its field.

Soulman · Apr 23, 2017

vegster said:
I'd love to but not much around for someone of my age with zero qualifications other than on job experience and being a good worker....18 months ago I got through to interview stage for a job earning £19 k a year including shift allowances, then was given the bombshell that it was only a one year contract despite the company being in existence for 50 odd years and being a market leader in its field.

I see, i wish you luck.
I have jacked a few jobs because of attitudes similar to where you work.....shame you can not stick two fingers up, it really is.

wellquickwoody · Apr 23, 2017

Soulman said:
The worst car iv'e ever had was a Mercedes, pile of sh1t.
My Toyota and Fords have knocked them into a cocked hat.

Yeah, course, Ford/Toyota better than a Merc. If you buy old shit vehicles , you get old shit vehicles. Doesn't matter what country they are from, they are still shit.

wellquickwoody · Apr 23, 2017

studio150 said:
All brought from new or pre owned?

I will hazard a guess at 10-15 years old.

Soulman · Apr 23, 2017

wellquickwoody said:
Yeah, course, Ford/Toyota better than a Merc. If you buy old shit vehicles , you get old shit vehicles. Doesn't matter what country they are from, they are still shit.

Just my opinion, i bow to your superior knowledge though, i guess you are a mechanic.

wellquickwoody · Apr 23, 2017

vegster said:
£10 an hour equates to £400 a week which subsequently equates to £20,800 a year, over £5K a year LESS than the average wage PA of £26,500.

And.........

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 23, 2017

Buzzer said:
"Partly in jest". I've heard it all now, a self-proclaimed socialist who wants to remove the universal suffrage that took centuries to win with the obvious effect that those worst-off and in the poorest areas will make make up the vast majority of this new underclass. Maybe bring in eugenics too because the lower classes do breed like flies and a lot of them don't contribute much to society. Just keep enough so that we've all got part-time cleaners and someone to collect the rubbish every fortnight. That's straight out of 1984. A lumpenproletariat fed with booze, cheap music and the lottery and not to trouble their tiny little minds with decisions about who they want running their country.

Jesus wept, the utter arrogance of someone who thinks that their vote is more important than another person who isn't as clever as them and that the least educated should lose their rights all together. The disbelief that a socialist believes that this is worth considering.

"a self-proclaimed socialist who wants to remove the universal suffrage" - did you overlook all the question marks? I was asking questions. I wasn't saying I wanted anything.

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