[Politics] Brexit

abc · Jun 25, 2016

Firstly I hope that I am wrong because I want the UK and everyone who lives here to be united, happy and to thrive...

We are a trading nation and yet we have now given up free access to our biggest markets and favourable deals (as a consequence of being in the world's biggest trading block) with the rest of the world including the US and Asia. Consequently we will export less and import more finishing off our manufacturing industries and raising inflation. Global investment in uk industry will fall as it will not make economic sense to invest in a country that is economically isolated. This will hit jobs further. Trade with Ghana (as celebrated by a UKIP spokeperson last night) will not be a substitute.

Economic division in the Uk will increase as the economy falters and perhaps goes back into recession. Scotland will leave the UK and it is possible that the Irish divisions come to the fore again driven by Sinn Fein.

Younger people become even less engaged in politics and feel more disenfranhised. More division in the country.

In the longer term the rise of the right across Europe will see the break up of the EU and we will live in a much less safe and secure continent and world. Fascism God forbid may take hold again

That's why I voted remain but now the decision is done I hope and pray I'm wrong. We all need to pull together now but seeing the front page of the mail and sun today I doubt we will

Seagull58 · Jun 25, 2016

bashlsdir said:
They are going to play hard ball. It is not our country that is the problem, it is not the Leavers either, it is that whole sodding organisation who can't seem to reform over anything.

A sensible and mutually beneficial agreement will, I think, depend on Merkel and Hollarde grasping the nettle and organising the replacement of Juncker and Shultz by people who will be genuinely committed to a win-win agreement. Juncker, in particular, seems to be totally unsuited to participating positively in the exit negotiations. His toys are out of the pram and his pride is hurt.

Ernest · Jun 25, 2016

Spiros said:
To be fair most of the youngsters moaning (including my 17 year old daughter) are complaining that they didn't get to vote. 16 and 17 year old could vote in the Scottish independence referendum 2 years ago, but not this time. Don't know why. Given the margin of the vote and low turnout among young voters I don't think it would have changed the result though

Voting age is 18, that's the way it is

GT49er · Jun 25, 2016

wellquickwoody said:
The public have spoken, end. The result is deeply unpalatable to me, but it stands. The people I am most angry with are the 13 million who could not be bothered to either get out of their armchair and actually express their preference, or take a little time to learn about the issues so that they had a preference. Maybe the direction of their life for the next 30 years was not important enough to worry about. People get the government that they deserve.

But before too much complacency seeps into the minds of the victors, they should think very long and hard about why the more educated half of the population almost universally voted to stay in.. ... ... ....

You were doing quite well, up until that final bit of utmost stupidity.

Questions · Jun 25, 2016

The woman I'm working for said that the Portuguese had great roads but ours are full of potholes because we are broke because of the EU. She says the same will happen in Albania now and Turkey next year. It scared me on so many levels.

Hillian1 · Jun 25, 2016

Brighton Lines said:
The UK will have it hard here. Some in the 'leave' group are softening the rhetoric now. Even some of the language in the right wing publications is more conciliatory. We need the EU more than it needs us, despite what has been said. Someone started a new column on here with grandiose and empirical language about making them grovel. I'm afraid that quite the opposite is true here.

The EU won't collapse. But it is a wounded animal.

This is my biggest concern here, we have effectively pulled down our pants and shown them a massive moonie.

Neville's Breakfast · Jun 25, 2016

Hillian1 said:
Heard the phrase being used yesterday.

Anyone know what it entails and would the leave voters be happy with this should the EU be open to it?

I am a Leave voter and would be open to it. It depends on the detail. Working co-operatively with trading partners for mutual benefit is a good thing. Perhaps someone should tell Mr Juncker before he makes any more speeches...

smeg · Jun 25, 2016

Bwian said:
That's one thing they are likely to get with Scotland looking for another chance of independence and NI likely to follow suit.

we may have to rebrand as Great England

Seagull58 · Jun 25, 2016

pb21 said:
One Brexit clown on here is looking forward to getting rid of dirty 'euro' measures like the kilogram and the meter and bringing back good olde English measures like the pound and the yard.

I heard one guy on channel 4 news last night saying less Muslims would come to the country now we are out of the EU.

I don't think he was being serious about the measurements. I thought he was being facetious. I hope so, anyway.

Guy Fawkes · Jun 25, 2016

perth seagull said:
I thought this was interesting and supports the OP's argument.

As votes are secret and the person voting shouldn't be identified, how can they tell how anyone voted? People (of any age) could be telling those carrying out the polls like this one one thing fully knowing that they intend to vote the opposite way.

The sample size is also just 1652 and could have been taken in an area that's more likely to have voted in one direction than typical (Scotland or London for remain or instead of one of the main areas that wanted out)

pb21 said:
I'm just pointing out that only 1 in 3 voted for Brexit, and 2 in 3 didn't.

I didn't vote in the EU referendum, but i'm happy to go along with whichever side had won the vote because that is what has been decided democratically. (I didn't vote because it thought that there were massive pros and cons to both outcomes and we were being asked the equivalent to whether we want to have our arm or our leg amputated and we had to pick one)

Just because around a third didn't vote in this referendum, it doesn't mean at those who didn't vote were against the outcome we got (which ever way it went) but it's more likely to mean that they either didn't have strong enough views either way to support one side over the other and it could and probably also means that they are content to go along with whatever the outcome of the vote was (if they were going to be unhappy should the opposite to their view triumph, then they would surely have had the motivation to vote against that side)

Also, if we only allowed results where over 50% of all eligible voter had vote for the winner or we don't except the outcome as valid, then we'd either have to have compulsory voting for all (making them pick a side that they don't necessarily agree with their policies because they are forced to vote and neither side may represent their views) and this would have to be coupled with a 2 party system only in things like General Elections to guarantee that one side won with more than 50% majority (so no more greens, no Lib Dems, no independents, no SNP, no Plaid Cymri, etc Just a couple of parties like Labour and the Tories, or like in the states with the republicans or the Democrats and are they better of for this lack of real choice?) or we would never have an acceptable result and nothing would ever be decided or happen

Some elections, etc, the turnout is under 50%, what do we do then, keep repeating this process (ad all the campaigns until we get an acceptable outcome or moan, whinge and complain that we are facing the result of a minority victory just because your viewpoint didn't triumph?

LamieRobertson · Jun 25, 2016

Bob! said:
I think that is a question for the Leavers.

Was kinda thinking that myself...and I'm waiting for all there ''workable solutions''

Westdene Seagull · Jun 25, 2016

Guy Fawkes said:
Would that still have happened without the EU seeing as there are nations armed with nuclear bombs in Europe? Would the Germans have invaded France (a nuclear armed country) for a 3rd time or is the only thing that prevented it is the existence of the EU? - or is this point a bit like selling someone In Brighton a rock / pebble and saying that this rock / pebble is the thing that's preventing a volcano from forming in Sussex?

Yugoslavia had a civil war and ended up splitting into several countries, despite the existence of the EU, pretty sure they are located in Europe. - why wasn't that prevented?

Indeed. And let's add in Bosnia. Troops displaying the EU badge even allowed a massacre !

KZNSeagull · Jun 25, 2016

There is a reasonable discussion about this on the Associate membership thread.

Hampster Gull · Jun 25, 2016

GoldWithFalmer said:
What do you propose we do now to take things forwards I would like to hear you honest unbiased views and whilst I would welcome we are up a creak without a paddle replies , what I am really after is workable solutions.

What is your preferred model Canada Norway or Swiss or New non EU UK?

It's happened and there is no turning back so where do we go from here?

Thank you.

One for the leavers. They broke it. Shameless that the day after they have no proposals

Medwayseagull · Jun 25, 2016

smeg said:
we may have to rebrand as Great England

Then all the brexiteers can be called great little Englanders - a name which they will love to serve their misguided sense of patriotism.

Deleted member 22389 · Jun 25, 2016

Seagull58 said:
A sensible and mutually beneficial agreement will, I think, depend on Merkel and Hollarde grasping the nettle and organising the replacement of Juncker and Shultz by people who will be genuinely committed to a win-win agreement. Juncker, in particular, seems to be totally unsuited to participating positively in the exit negotiations. His toys are out of the pram and his pride is hurt.

Now is the time the EU should be really talking to us, it shouldn't end up being about one man having a personal agenda against our country, stalling the process because he is upset that we don't like the way his club his run. This is the root problem of the EU, nobody listens and that is why nothing changes. I think the UK is going to see the real EU over the next few weeks.

Eeyore · Jun 25, 2016

smeg said:
With the help of the media and a huge dollop of nationalism to prompt the poor and ill educated to march on down to the polling station quoting things like "we want our country back" and "we are getting over run" while the right wing wheels of the tory party moved into place. There won't be much sympathy from me when the Farage and Murdoch inspired utopia fronted by Boris get to work, we have just handed them the keys for the next three to four years.

Please re-consider the use of this language. A friend of mine who voted 'leave' has been extremely upset by some of the jibes that have indirectly headed his way. It's becoming a bit entrenched among those who voted to stay to suggest that somehow large proportions of the population lack intelligence and are somehow inferior. This may well not be your own personal intention, but statements like that feed in to the general pool of condescension towards those who took the other option.

Elvis · Jun 25, 2016

sir albion said:
The youngsters wanted in but to be fair they have as much knowledge as a pea and will thank us one day.

Wonderfully patronising post!

Did you not see the old fart in Hartlepool celebrating the fact that he'd voted out Cameron! .............could be replaced by Boris or Gove!!!

Or the old woman that claimed she never wanted to learn German anyway!!!!

The young voters are the ones who weigh up the alternatives and are not shackled by prehistoric tribal party loyalties!!

But hey! you go and spend the day outside Reading University and tell them they have a pea for a brain, and to bow down and thank you for saving them.

Hampster Gull · Jun 25, 2016

Hillian1 said:
This is my biggest concern here, we have effectively pulled down our pants and shown them a massive moonie.

I have this image of grumpy old men and taxi drivers all pulling down their pants. Thanks for that

Medwayseagull · Jun 25, 2016

Shock horror - leave supporter wants to pick brains of remainers after they voted for something that they didn't understand the implications of.

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