FFP

AmexRuislip · Jan 1, 2017

Everest said:
This site is run on a not-for-profit basis by Ed Thompson.

I am a Financial Projects manager working for one of the world's largest banks.

I have been described by the Independent on Sunday as '“One of the country's leading analysts of Uefa's Financial Fair Play regulations”

Some "leading analyst" if he can't even use the right figures

Journalism at its best??

El Presidente · Jan 1, 2017

Guy Fawkes said:
If i've got this right, their £24m in transfers wont all be counted as a part of this years losses, the transfer fee would be broken down into equal amounts over the length of their contracts so, say if they all signed 4 year contracts, that would only add £6m per year to their losses but over 4 years

Correct

El Presidente · Jan 1, 2017

Everest said:
This site is run on a not-for-profit basis by Ed Thompson.

I am a Financial Projects manager working for one of the world's largest banks.

I have been described by the Independent on Sunday as '“One of the country's leading analysts of Uefa's Financial Fair Play regulations”

Some "leading analyst" if he can't even use the right figures

I know Ed. He's a good guy.

sir albion · Jan 1, 2017

We're the Stripes said:
I really do not see how Derby could've passed it based on the following transfer activity: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Derby_County_F.C._season#Transfers_in

Comparing to our accounts - where's their extra leeway coming from?

Agreed....just doesn't seem possible

Blue Valkyrie · Jan 1, 2017

El Presidente said:
I know Ed. He's a good guy.

But his research into the '500k' isn't great, is it ?

AmexRuislip · Jan 1, 2017

El Presidente said:
I know Ed. He's a good guy.

What's an average quote to be paid, if one does an independent article for any said newspaper?
Given not everyone will agree to the article!

nwgull · Jan 1, 2017

Guy Fawkes said:
If i've got this right, their £24m in transfers wont all be counted as a part of this years losses, the transfer fee would be broken down into equal amounts over the length of their contracts so, say if they all signed 4 year contracts, that would only add £6m per year to their losses but over 4 years

I accept that, but large transfer fees generally equate to large wages, and I'm sure that free transfers like a Darren Bent would be on high wages as well. It may just be my perception, but in summer 2015 it really felt as if both Derby and Boro were going for it big time. With that in mind, I can't get my head round how they wouldn't have exceeded the loss limit given that we were, apparently, very close to it with similar income.

El Presidente · Jan 1, 2017

nwgull said:
I accept that, but large transfer fees generally equate to large wages, and I'm sure that free transfers like a Darren Bent would be on high wages as well. It may just be my perception, but in summer 2015 it really felt as if both Derby and Boro were going for it big time. With that in mind, I can't get my head round how they wouldn't have exceeded the loss limit given that we were, apparently, very close to it with similar income.

Derby have in previous years had some 'unusual' activity in their P&L account, such as rescheduling debts which created £3m of income.

In addition Boro's tax losses are used against profits made by the rest of the Steve Gibson empire if I recall correctly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Guy Fawkes · Jan 1, 2017

nwgull said:
I accept that, but large transfer fees generally equate to large wages, and I'm sure that free transfers like a Darren Bent would be on high wages as well. It may just be my perception, but in summer 2015 it really felt as if both Derby and Boro were going for it big time. With that in mind, I can't get my head round how they wouldn't have exceeded the loss limit given that we were, apparently, very close to it with similar income.

The amount you can lose went up, plus they had a high turnover of players looking at the link provided earlier, including those going out on loan so maybe they have kept the wage bill pretty similar to previous years and maybe those leaving where also signed for a fee that is no longer being amortised which frees up capital for these transfer fees?

perseus · Jan 1, 2017

El Presidente said:
Adopts John Inman voice 'I'm free'

Some expenses are excluded for FFP calculations, so my estimate is

Accounting loss £25.9m

Add back:
Depreciation on stadium and Lancing £4.9m
Academy category 1 running costs £5m
Transport subsidy (suspect FL will allow this as a unique cost of running the Albion) £1.2m
Other allowable costs £2m

FFP loss £12.8m

I anticipate losses to be at least £30m for 2016/17 and could touch £40m if we are promoted once bonuses are paid out.

It is a guess rather than an estimate. The accounts are not detailed enough for anything else.

I guessed *~(rounded up)

Add back

Depreciation £5 m
Academy £11 m (Running costs estimated at £2 m a year, so some of these must be assets acquired)

Promotion bonuses are excluded for FFP, so that is why Bournemouth complied. Leicester avoided sanctions by creative accounting.

Qualifying loss £10 m

Equity inclusion £ 11 m

Last accounts did see wages increase by £7 m to £27m or so which is higher than the total income from all sources. If we get promoted this could rise to £40 m in the promotion year.

However, it does look like the Albion (or clubs other than Newcastle, Villa, Norwich) will not spend big in January (now) w/o selling first. Not entirely ruled out but most likely not.

Nixonator · Jan 1, 2017

El Presidente said:
I know Ed. He's a good guy.

Seems like you're dodging questions! Perhaps in fear of SMEARING your good friend.

He states a maximum permitted loss figure not exceeding 500k, moreover he doesn't even subtract that 500k for the sake of argument in his FFP max loss table. This seems grossly inaccurate when you consider we are predicting that we could have up to 13M of permitted losses (depreciation, academy) against the 25.9M?

PILTDOWN MAN · Jan 1, 2017

Everest said:
This site is run on a not-for-profit basis by Ed Thompson.

I am a Financial Projects manager working for one of the world's largest banks.

I have been described by the Independent on Sunday as '“One of the country's leading analysts of Uefa's Financial Fair Play regulations”

Some "leading analyst" if he can't even use the right figures

What's Uefa's FFP got to do with it?

nwgull · Jan 1, 2017

perseus said:
It is a guess rather than an estimate. The accounts are not detailed enough for anything else.

I guessed *~(rounded up)

Add back

Depreciation £5 m
Academy £11 m (Running costs estimated at £2 m a year, so some of these must be assets acquired)

Promotion bonuses are excluded for FFP, so that is why Bournemouth complied. Leicester avoided sanctions by creative accounting.

Bournemouth didn't comply; they just accepted their £7.6m fine with seemingly little complaint.

I think that Leicester's transaction, whereby they sold sponsorship rights for a hugely inflated fee to a newly formed company owned by people with strong links to Leicester's owners, is still under investigation and could/should land them with a 7-8m fine.

perseus · Jan 1, 2017

nwgull said:
Bournemouth didn't comply; they just accepted their £7.6m fine with seemingly little complaint.

I think that Leicester's transaction, whereby they sold sponsorship rights for a hugely inflated fee to a newly formed company owned by people with strong links to Leicester's owners, is still under investigation and could/should land them with a 7-8m fine.

Missed that: http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-6m-after-breaching-financial-fair-play-rules

Not sure how the Albion training ground is accounted for.

Green Cross Code Man · Jan 1, 2017

Looks like the disputed report has been taken down:

Blue Valkyrie · Jan 1, 2017

Green Cross Code Man said:
Looks like the disputed report has been taken down:

Has Paul Barber been on the case ?

Blue Valkyrie · Jan 1, 2017

Anyhow, it's all SCAREMONGERING.

http://mobile.seagulls.co.uk/news/a...hampionship-brighton-hove-albion-3495024.aspx

Nixonator · Jan 1, 2017

Green Cross Code Man said:
Looks like the disputed report has been taken down:

This is the one that I was disputing at least http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/championship-ffp-rules-201617.php

warmleyseagull · Jan 1, 2017

El Presidente said:
I anticipate losses to be at least £30m for 2016/17 and could touch £40m if we are promoted once bonuses are paid out.

Promotion bonuses are excluded expense for FFP purposes.

Green Cross Code Man · Jan 1, 2017

Nixonator said:
This is the one that I was disputing at least http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/championship-ffp-rules-201617.php

Ah, thanks, wrong link then!

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