[News] Twenty Members of a Grooming Gang Convicted

Tom Hark Preston Park · Oct 20, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
But if you want to carry on chuntering about northern towns and Asians, then I can't stop you. I will question your motives.

How many months down the line before the next case emerges? And what's the betting that the profile of the perpetrators will be the same. And the profile of the victims will be the same. And the town will share the same profile as the last town. And the official agencies in that town will be slapping themselves on the back for finally putting a stop to something they should never have allowed to occur on their watch in the first place. As I say, it's dispiriting. And utterly predictable.

jonnyrovers · Oct 20, 2018

Knocky's Nose said:
Which was my question. Did these men solely target white British girls because they were not Muslim, and therefore it didn't 'count' like it would if they were grooming and sexually abusing young Muslim girls? Is this a sex crime and a race crime?

I'm not saying it is, or it isn't - but the question should be asked. All I can say with almost certainty is that if a gang of 20 white British males had just been locked up for targeting, grooming and raping underage Muslim girls, there would be riots and demonstrations - and this would be a race crime in the eyes of many.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue the rights or wrongs - I just think that question needed asking, however inconvenient and awkward for some it may be.

All valid questions & points. I probably didn't make it obvious in my post that I was largely in agreement with you. Race or culture or ethnicity can inform this particular crime, I'm still of the view it is a sex crime, but the common denominators underlining it absolutely should be addressed.

LamieRobertson · Oct 20, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
You have completely missed the point. Who is bristling with indignation?

I do see indignation in this thread, pointing the fingure at a culture and at northern towns, but my point is that detracts from the problem that is everywhere. It's so easy to say it's happening there and sit here being all self righteous about our own culture and our own towns.

Girls in nail bars. Are they sex slaves at night? Girls brought over here to work as waitresses, bar work or chambermaids, have found themselves trapped and abused.
Stop looking under northern stones and look in your own town.

My church has a group called Alternatives, which gives counselling to pregnant women, those who have had abortions and suffered since, and also work with Sussex police to try and reach those who are sex slaves. There is a free telephone number for those who want to try to escape.

Here is some great work done by Sussex detectives. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-41512050

But if you want to carry on chuntering about northern towns and Asians, then I can't stop you. I will question your motives.

Good points TB ..and yet you don’t generally see these discussed..along with the constant stream of ‘sex’ attacks that are reported almost every week in the local rag, its almost as if they don’t quite fit their agenda.

Anyway my thoughts are with those those damaged by these events, whether the individual concerned or there relations ..hopefully they now feel their voices have been heard and some sort of justice has been dealt

Thunder Bolt · Oct 20, 2018

jonnyrovers said:
All valid questions & points. I probably didn't make it obvious in my post that I was largely in agreement with you. Race or culture or ethnicity can inform this particular crime, I'm still of the view it is a sex crime, but the common denominators underlining it absolutely should be addressed.

It is a sex crime, but rape is not about sex, believe it or not. Why would 80 or 90 yr olds be raped by burglars?
It is about power. Beating the girls up, threatening them, keeping them hostage, abandoning them on the Moors? It's power that is the motivation.

Thunder Bolt · Oct 20, 2018

Chicken Run said:
I asked if the perps. were from an ethnic community, you replied by advising one of them was a Sikh!!

I did, because people were already pointing the finger at the Muslim community. I then went on within a couple of posts to say similar things were happening with Romanian, Albanian and Vietnamese were involved in similar crimes.

Thunder Bolt · Oct 20, 2018

jonnyrovers said:
The human condition is a complex and unfathomable beast and cares nothing for faith or ethnicity.

I read about the case of an educated middle class white man (ex army officer) who got off on the fantasy of overpowering & having his wicked way with arabic women. He didn't find arabic women particularly attractive, but enjoyed the symbolism of a white man exerting his perceived power over an exotic, off limits, protected and burkha covered woman. He would regularly visit an arabic prostitute and act out his fantasy. A pre-agreed transaction between two consenting adults. He controlled his desire in this way, and fully understood that very few people would understand or empathise with his desires & actions. He was certain that other ex servicemen who toured Iraq & Afghanistan did similar. So is this a cultural behaviour confined to this tight group?

My point is that clearly, similarly, there is a 'thing' that many asian males desire sex and/or control over young, white, vulnerable women. It is absolutely reasonable and expected that some asian men think this way, because they are human and have desires. If they act out their desires in a controlled and agreed way, with a consenting partner, then surely that's ok too. BUT, in several cases these men have gotten together and formed 'tight groups' and acted on their desires collectively in the most heinous and despicably illegal way. Mob mentality has ensued and awful things have happened.

It isn't racist to point out the social, cultural, ethnic, maybe even religious traits that link the crimes that have happened in towns across Britain in recent years. What is important is that they are treated as sex crimes by definition, not race crimes.

Very good points, and posted in a more articulate way than mine.

wellquickwoody · Oct 20, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
I lived there for nine years and it is a lovely leafy town, with great people.

Lovely leafy town with great people.......

If you've lived in barracks for years maybe :smile:

wellquickwoody · Oct 20, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
Brighton & Hove - a two second Google search. The one at my husband's work didn't even make the press. Btw the mother was jailed too.

https://www.brightonandhovenews.org...-prolific-and-predatory-paedophile-from-hove/

https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2018/09/21/hove-paedophile-jailed-for-12-years/

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/15484356.Hove_child_protection_officer_exposed_as_paedophile/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-16301878

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/08/...-worked-as-a-drag-queen-jailed-for-26-months/

Could you point out the reference to organised gang(s) please?

Thunder Bolt · Oct 20, 2018

wellquickwoody said:
Could you point out the reference to organisers gang(s) please?

I did in post 7.
Rape and sexual abuse is the same whether organised or one person.

jonnyrovers · Oct 20, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
It is a sex crime, but rape is not about sex, believe it or not. Why would 80 or 90 yr olds be raped by burglars?
It is about power. Beating the girls up, threatening them, keeping them hostage, abandoning them on the Moors? It's power that is the motivation.

I completely understand that. I told a story earlier in this thread about sexual motives and desires and the human condition, the white man that needs to demonstrate he can 'have' the unattainable Arabic woman despite there being no physical attraction.

Clearly I need to read the detail on the convictions. Was kidnap, false imprisonment, physical abuse committed and proven? What interests me is whether this crime demonstrates a broad cultural situation specifically within British Asian communities or is no different the crimes of any other paedophile gang?

wellquickwoody · Oct 20, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
I did in post 7.
Rape and sexual abuse is the same whether organised or one person.

I did not query post 7 did I? I queried the post where you had listed specific links to child abuse in Brighton/Hove/Sussex. You did this to seemingly belittle others who were showing their annoyance with multiple cases of organised child abuse in northern towns committed by people of non Anglo Saxon heritage. You seem to be engaging in whataboutery in my view.

Thunder Bolt · Oct 20, 2018

jonnyrovers said:
I completely understand that. I told a story earlier in this thread about sexual motives and desires and the human condition, the white man that needs to demonstrate he can 'have' the unattainable Arabic woman despite there being no physical attraction.

Clearly I need to read the detail on the convictions. Was kidnap, false imprisonment, physical abuse committed and proven? What interests me is whether this crime demonstrates a broad cultural situation specifically within British Asian communities or is no different the crimes of any other paedophile gang?

I don't think it was any different to any other paedophile gang. Look for 'easy' victims, lie to them, groom them and then use violence threats etc to keep them entrapped.
Some of the more local ones use abduction as well rather than coercion. On BBC SouthEast this week, there was the story of 'Jenny' where her clothes were taken away, so she couldn't escape until the next 'client' came along. She has escaped now and living a much better life, but she was groomed here in Sussex aged 13.

jonnyrovers · Oct 20, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
I don't think it was any different to any other paedophile gang. Look for 'easy' victims, lie to them, groom them and then use violence threats etc to keep them entrapped.
Some of the more local ones use abduction as well rather than coercion. On BBC SouthEast this week, there was the story of 'Jenny' where her clothes were taken away, so she couldn't escape until the next 'client' came along. She has escaped now and living a much better life, but she was groomed here in Sussex aged 13.

Makes you sick to know it's happening on your doorstep.

GT49er · Oct 20, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
You have completely missed the point. Who is bristling with indignation?

To be honest, I was thinking of posts like this one I am replying to................................

As for my motives, I'm just calling out the sort of attitude that whenever a crime committed by BME is reported somewhere, that they cannot stop themselves bursting out with 'Yes but........not all [insert type of crime] is committed by BME people. Yes, we know that! So question my motives all you like; I hope you don't come to the wrong conclusion, but sadly I my guess is that you will.

Anyway, I believe there's a football match on somewhere - so I'm out of here.

Thunder Bolt · Oct 20, 2018

jonnyrovers said:
Makes you sick to know it's happening on your doorstep.

Very much so.

Pretty pink fairy · Oct 20, 2018

Thunder Bolt said:
What a stupid comment.

WHAT ELSE WERE THEY GOOD FOR these people of "Pakistani" origin
regards
DR

Publius Ovidius · Oct 20, 2018

Tom Hark said:
How many months down the line before the next case emerges? And what's the betting that the profile of the perpetrators will be the same. And the profile of the victims will be the same. And the town will share the same profile as the last town. And the official agencies in that town will be slapping themselves on the back for finally putting a stop to something they should never have allowed to occur on their watch in the first place. As I say, it's dispiriting. And utterly predictable.

...and what about the inquiry set up in London to look at this sort of thing that has happened by establishment figures, which took ages to call and led to resignations of all sorts of people. To blame it on northern towns like you did earlier mate is bloody crass....is oxford now a northern town?

To put some sort of context in all of these horrors, child abuse has been around since we came out of the seas. In Roman society, young boys were " given" to the elite as a form of patronage..yes, given. Young baby girls, who most men were not interested in were left outside to die in the streets ...and we hold the romans up as a civilised society.

In this case and with others all around the country, including Scotland btw, it is a reflection of the worst of society and yes, Asian gangs prey upon these children, BUT the children have been failed by their families, the social services, the schools,the police, the councils and ultimately the government. And instead of bickering as to the colour of these scum, we should all come together and demand that the government get a ****ing grip and bang heads together to protect our children.

Pretty pink fairy · Oct 20, 2018

Publius Ovidius said:
...and what about the inquiry set up in London to look at this sort of thing that has happened by establishment figures, which took ages to call and led to resignations of all sorts of people. To blame it on northern towns like you did earlier mate is bloody crass....is oxford now a northern town?

To put some sort of context in all of these horrors, child abuse has been around since we came out of the seas. In Roman society, young boys were " given" to the elite as a form of patronage..yes, given. Young baby girls, who most men were not interested in were left outside to die in the streets ...and we hold the romans up as a civilised society.

In this case and with others all around the country, including Scotland btw, it is a reflection of the worst of society and yes, Asian gangs prey upon these children, BUT the children have been failed by their families, the social services, the schools,the police, the councils and ultimately the government. And instead of bickering as to the colour of these scum, we should all come together and demand that the government get a ****ing grip and bang heads together to protect our children.

yes, but why is it people of" Pakistani" origin who keep on being exposed in large areas of the north of England, any coincidence ??
regards
DR

Dr Bandler · Oct 20, 2018

I cant say too much, but sadly I understand from a member of my family in the police that this is going on in Sussex too, perpetrated by the same ethnic group. The fact that other child sex abuse also goes on is irrelevant to this issue. Close your eyes all you like, wish it wasn't true all you like and that the world fitted your values, but thank goodness enough people can see what is right in front of their faces.

I have witnessed suspicious behaviour in a part of Sussex that would surprise most people, and yes the police have been informed.

Guinness Boy · Oct 20, 2018

Pretty pink fairy said:
WHAT ELSE WERE THEY GOOD FOR these people of "Pakistani" origin
regards
DR

So, the reason so many of these threads end up in The Other Stuff / Locked or both is exactly this type of post. Nothing to do with free speech, This is out and out racism and has no place on NSC. Ppf has been banned off the thread but the whoile thing will go in the bin if this sort of thing continues. If you can't tell the difference between condemning grooming gangs and stating that a whole race or country act in this way then please just don't post.

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[News] Twenty Members of a Grooming Gang Convicted

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