OT Smart central heating controllers, hive etc

happypig · Oct 11, 2016

I'm thinking of shelling out on one of those Hive thingies to control my heating and water.
Thing is, the old feller who installed a new boiler a few years back "bypassed" the room stat (said we didn't need one with thermostatical valves).
Anyone know if I can just add a hive and "unbypass" his bodge ?

Is there a better smart controller out there ?

(Oh, I can't ask the fitter, he dead)

Westdene Seagull · Oct 11, 2016

happypig said:
I'm thinking of shelling out on one of those Hive thingies to control my heating and water.
Thing is, the old feller who installed a new boiler a few years back "bypassed" the room stat (said we didn't need one with thermostatical valves).
Anyone know if I can just add a hive and "unbypass" his bodge ?

Is there a better smart controller out there ?

(Oh, I can't ask the fitter, he dead)

I don't have a recommendation on a controller but I'm pretty sure your dead fitter was talking cobblers. I thought it was a requirement under building regs to have a room stat.

happypig · Oct 11, 2016

Westdene Seagull said:
I don't have a recommendation on a controller but I'm pretty sure your dead fitter was talking cobblers. I thought it was a requirement under building regs to have a room stat.

He wasn't talking cobblers, the room stat does nothing; turn the heating on and the boiler fires up no matter where the stat (it's still there) is set.

A stark lesson in not letting a retired family friend's brother do a job (even if he was fully qualified).

Captain Sensible · Oct 11, 2016

I can highly recommend Nest. Nest also do smoke/carbon monoxide alarms, security cameras. You can add bits onto your nest environment. Smart learning, learns your habits and when you arrive/leave/get up/go to bed. You can turn off smart learning but I use it and love the thing. The nest and my new boiler have saved me a lot of money on heating bills.

Captain Sensible · Oct 11, 2016

happypig said:
He wasn't talking cobblers, the room stat does nothing; turn the heating on and the boiler fires up no matter where the stat (it's still there) is set.

A stark lesson in not letting a retired family friend's brother do a job (even if he was fully qualified).

If the stat is still there, I'm sure an electrician can quickly and easily hook up the new thermostat with the demand for heat. Although, with the nest you don't need to have the thermostat on the wall, it can also be free standing and you can move it anywhere you have a plug.

Curious Orange · Oct 11, 2016

Why do people want to wire their heating up to the internet? I am genuinely interested, as I can't understand why you'd want to micromanage the central heating, when if you've set it up properly it'll happily manage itself all year round?

happypig · Oct 11, 2016

Curious Orange said:
Why do people want to wire their heating up to the internet? I am genuinely interested, as I can't understand why you'd want to micromanage the central heating, when if you've set it up properly it'll happily manage itself all year round?

I want to be able to control it from my lounge or office (both on different floors to my CH controller).

Captain Sensible · Oct 11, 2016

Curious Orange said:
Why do people want to wire their heating up to the internet? I am genuinely interested, as I can't understand why you'd want to micromanage the central heating, when if you've set it up properly it'll happily manage itself all year round?

Because these things are smart. If you get up at 7.30am on weekdays, the Nest learns that and makes sure that the house is warm when you get up (to whatever temperature you've set), but it learns how long it takes to heat your house, so it might only click on 5 mins before if the house is already close to the set temp. If it's colder in the house after a cold night it will click on earlier to heat the house. Likewise if you like it say 20c but have left the house at 9am, the Nest will stop heating 20 mins before as it knows the hot water in your rads will continue heating until you leave. There are really a lot more things it does, nearly all of them designed to save your heating bill, and set the house to what you want whilst using the minimum amount of Gas. Then of course you've got the control while you are away from home. It also will never let the house go below 5c (if you are away from home for a while in winter) to stop any risk of freezing pipes.
Honestly I was sceptical at first but the thing has won me over.

happypig · Oct 11, 2016

Unfortunately it can't heat the house to 20c, but heat the bit where mrs H sits to about 55C to make her happy (all through the summer she was sitting with a blanket over her complaining about the cold)

beorhthelm · Oct 11, 2016

happypig said:
I want to be able to control it from my lounge or office (both on different floors to my CH controller).

isnt that the point of the thermostat valves on the radiators? if you want to control different floors you're going to need seperate zones with thermostats for each floor, and/or values on the radiators. or you just want a glorified remote control for the thermostat? eitherway im with Curious dont see the point beyond technotoy.

Arthur · Oct 11, 2016

happypig said:
Unfortunately it can't heat the house to 20c, but heat the bit where mrs H sits to about 55C to make her happy (all through the summer she was sitting with a blanket over her complaining about the cold)

My sister has one which she now hates but my brother in law loves because he can see whilst he is at work how far she has whacked the heating up and turn it down.

Springal · Oct 11, 2016

Captain Sensible said:
Because these things are smart. If you get up at 7.30am on weekdays, the Nest learns that and makes sure that the house is warm when you get up (to whatever temperature you've set), but it learns how long it takes to heat your house, so it might only click on 5 mins before if the house is already close to the set temp. If it's colder in the house after a cold night it will click on earlier to heat the house. Likewise if you like it say 20c but have left the house at 9am, the Nest will stop heating 20 mins before as it knows the hot water in your rads will continue heating until you leave. There are really a lot more things it does, nearly all of them designed to save your heating bill, and set the house to what you want whilst using the minimum amount of Gas. Then of course you've got the control while you are away from home. It also will never let the house go below 5c (if you are away from home for a while in winter) to stop any risk of freezing pipes.
Honestly I was sceptical at first but the thing has won me over.

Has the outlay been covered by the saving in bills ? Some of the ROIs I saw were nearly 10 years when these first came out.

Must admit I don't see what problem it fixes, I leave my heating on all year around but program time + tempt with the digital remote thermostats (I have 1 upstairs and 1 downstairs) accordingly. We pay about £70 gas/electric a month all year round for a 3 bedroom semi-detached house with OVO.

Curious Orange · Oct 11, 2016

Captain Sensible said:
Because these things are smart. If you get up at 7.30am on weekdays, the Nest learns that and makes sure that the house is warm when you get up (to whatever temperature you've set), but it learns how long it takes to heat your house, so it might only click on 5 mins before if the house is already close to the set temp. If it's colder in the house after a cold night it will click on earlier to heat the house. Likewise if you like it say 20c but have left the house at 9am, the Nest will stop heating 20 mins before as it knows the hot water in your rads will continue heating until you leave. There are really a lot more things it does, nearly all of them designed to save your heating bill, and set the house to what you want whilst using the minimum amount of Gas. Then of course you've got the control while you are away from home. It also will never let the house go below 5c (if you are away from home for a while in winter) to stop any risk of freezing pipes.
Honestly I was sceptical at first but the thing has won me over.

Interesting, though not an entirely new idea. When we moved into my Mum's current house at the start of the 90's it had a Honeywell system that you could tell to have the house a certain temperature by a certain time, and it did - it employed a second thermostat on the outside of the house and used the temperature difference between the inside and outside in order to work out when to turn the boiler on. It used to confuse the sh*t out of all the gas men who came to service the boiler!!

nicko31 · Oct 11, 2016

Curious Orange said:
Why do people want to wire their heating up to the internet? I am genuinely interested, as I can't understand why you'd want to micromanage the central heating, when if you've set it up properly it'll happily manage itself all year round?

Yeah unless you are away a lot and don't know when you are coming home its pretty pointless, spend the money on insulation if you want to save money

happypig · Oct 11, 2016

beorhthelm said:
isnt that the point of the thermostat valves on the radiators? if you want to control different floors you're going to need seperate zones with thermostats for each floor, and/or values on the radiators. or you just want a glorified remote control for the thermostat? eitherway im with Curious dont see the point beyond technotoy.

I work shifts, including night shifts, at home and often forget to change the programmer to match work times/bed times. Thermostatic valves are no good if you've forgotten to turn the heating on.

Captain Sensible · Oct 11, 2016

Springal said:
Has the outlay been covered by the saving in bills ? Some of the ROIs I saw were nearly 10 years when these first came out.

Must admit I don't see what problem it fixes, I leave my heating on all year around but program time + tempt with the digital remote thermostats (I have 1 upstairs and 1 downstairs) accordingly. We pay about £70 gas/electric a month all year round for a 3 bedroom semi-detached house with OVO.

Well my old thermostat wasn't working properly, so to replace it for something that is £200 isn't a lot more than £50 on a basic thermo. Our bills have come down £25 a month but we did have a new boiler in place of an old 1980's Baxi and a thermostat that didn't work properly. So I don't know the figures, all I know is the heating is on a lot less to keep the house at the same temperature as before. Don't forget you are also paying for the technology and convenience. I have a 1970's 4 bed detached and we now pay £68 a month vrs £94.

Captain Sensible · Oct 11, 2016

happypig said:
I work shifts, including night shifts, at home and often forget to change the programmer to match work times/bed times. Thermostatic valves are no good if you've forgotten to turn the heating on.

In that case I would say a product such as Nest or Hive is perfect for you.

Curious Orange · Oct 11, 2016

happypig said:
I work shifts, including night shifts, at home and often forget to change the programmer to match work times/bed times. Thermostatic valves are no good if you've forgotten to turn the heating on.

Why would you turn the heating off? Surely that is the thermostats job depending on temperature and the time of day?

* just seen [MENTION=13947]happypig[/MENTION]'s latest post - weird shifts would make a traditional programmer somewhat cumbersome!

Tony Towner's Fridge · Oct 11, 2016

OK

So where do I start. My house in Glasgow has HIVE and it is good.Using it with a thermostat downstairs in the hall and I have a schedule that is readily changed using the App. Small issue with the control of my Potterton Kingfisher at the moment but this isn't a HIVE issue.

But and this is a slightly larger BUT,dependent on whether or not you want a more modular approach which takes a bit more setting up. My holiday cottage on Arran is controlled using Lightwave RF which I think is absolutely fabulous. Hub connected via a Cat 5 Ethernet cable to the router (as HIVE ,NEST etc). I have a thermostat that is wireless and have five room heaters all enabled wireless via WiFi enabled 13A sockets. I also monitor my power consumption via a clamp on unit. The thermostat and power monitor run on AA batteries which last a little under a year (I think as I have only had the installation in for 8 months and am monitoring the battery life left).
The previous owner was spending over 1500GBP per year on electricity (there is no gas available but Lightwave do radiator thermostats and full gas HW/CH control if needed) and I think I have halved this, with more occupancy to boot. The whole installation has cost me 400GBP.
Please feel free to send me a private link and I can send you more info, even help you design your installation.

There should be tax relief on these systems as they are so environmentally friendly. If we all had one then the Country's heating bill would be reduced 20% minimum IMHO.

TNBA

TTF

Springal · Oct 11, 2016

Captain Sensible said:
Well my old thermostat wasn't working properly, so to replace it for something that is £200 isn't a lot more than £50 on a basic thermo. Our bills have come down £25 a month but we did have a new boiler in place of an old 1980's Baxi and a thermostat that didn't work properly. So I don't know the figures, all I know is the heating is on a lot less to keep the house at the same temperature as before. Don't forget you are also paying for the technology and convenience. I have a 1970's 4 bed detached and we now pay £68 a month vrs £94.

Yes I can see the benefit if you are replacing/modernising the whole lot.

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