Corbyn' s at it again !

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jun 15, 2017

Bozza said:
As much as it would clearly be a lovely thing to do, it's just not practical in terms of this particular tragedy is it? Why? Well how about...

1. How do you determine which properties have been empty for long enough? Seriously - how would anyone know?
2. Where do you draw the line between "Empty for too long" and "Empty but not enough so we can't reclaim the property"?
3. What if an "Empty for too long" property owners are returning tomorrow? Or the day after? Or next week? Where do they go when they can't live in the property they legally own?

There may be a wide-scale problem here, but I'm not sure how it can be rectified in the immediate vicinity of the disaster in the very short timescales required, as much as is sounds great to propose putting some of these poor people in multi-million pound properties.

A terribly pejorative thread, but some interesting comment. Some surprising (but actually not surprising, having chatted to the bloke on many occasions) 'leftish' suggestions from, well I won't embarrass him :bigwave:

I find that I am perhaps more 'rightish' on this issue. As stated above. . . . not so easy to do..... and there is a subliminal narrative of 'soak the rich' here that resonates also with the 'squatters rights' activites of the 70s. I can remember lots of trustafarian students breaking into and squatting in houses on Fulham, when I was a (very not trustafarian) student. To commandeer someone's property can't be acceptable.

However, yes, I agree with, OK, I'll name him [MENTION=5200]Buzzer[/MENTION] who seem to be suggesting (and I'll take the logic on a bit) that folk who have property that is not their 'official residence' (which can be checked) could perhaps have their property 'registered' for use in emergencies (by that I mean terrorism or an event like his fire, not 'routine' hardship) with a convivial and managed process (inventory, photos etc - all easily compiled). (incidentally whoever raised the straw man of second homes in Cornwall is missing the point I feel).

These places (in London and other cities with swish neighbourhoods) are kept empty for years because it is more convenient for the owner to collect growth in material wealth than even to bother collecting rent. They should not be punished for this all the while it is legal, but to have usable properties kept empty like this while families are forced into (well who knows what?) stinks to high heaven. Immoral and indefensible.

Contrast this to the extreme generosity and sacrifice being made by people who, I suspect (but would not make a big deal of it) who do not live off the income of the capital growth of their second/third/etc homes. :shrug:

I have been totally blown away by the kindness and humanity shown by so many, for no reward or thanks. THIS is what makes me proud to be English (and I use that term in its most controversial sense - someone who lives here legally and wants to belong here, and does).

Buzzer · Jun 15, 2017

Bozza said:
As much as it would clearly be a lovely thing to do, it's just not practical in terms of this particular tragedy is it? Why? Well how about...

1. How do you determine which properties have been empty for long enough? Seriously - how would anyone know?
2. Where do you draw the line between "Empty for too long" and "Empty but not enough so we can't reclaim the property"?
3. What if an "Empty for too long" property owners are returning tomorrow? Or the day after? Or next week? Where do they go when they can't live in the property they legally own?

There may be a wide-scale problem here, but I'm not sure how it can be rectified in the immediate vicinity of the disaster in the very short timescales required, as much as is sounds great to propose putting some of these poor people in multi-million pound properties.

There is a very easy way for some of the properties. You can apply for a council tax rebate if your house is empty. Councils also have the right to charge up to an extra 50% council tax if a house has been empty for more than 2 years. I'd start with any houses with either a rebate or a surcharge. I've no idea how councils do this but the process is already in place.

https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/second-homes-and-empty-properties

lawros left foot · Jun 15, 2017

Bozza said:
As much as it would clearly be a lovely thing to do, it's just not practical in terms of this particular tragedy is it? Why? Well how about...

1. How do you determine which properties have been empty for long enough? Seriously - how would anyone know?
2. Where do you draw the line between "Empty for too long" and "Empty but not enough so we can't reclaim the property"?
3. What if an "Empty for too long" property owners are returning tomorrow? Or the day after? Or next week? Where do they go when they can't live in the property they legally own?

There may be a wide-scale problem here, but I'm not sure how it can be rectified in the immediate vicinity of the disaster in the very short timescales required, as much as is sounds great to propose putting some of these poor people in multi-million pound properties.

Funny though how the Government can do things quickly and efficiently if it really puts its mind to it, oh and if its politically expedient, ie, the Falklands war,anti rave laws in the Eighties,a replacement for the Poll tax.

JC Footy Genius · Jun 15, 2017

Guinness Boy said:
Agreed. Government's the place for swinging cuts, outsourcing and the de-regularising of the building industry to the detriment of common sense safety regulations

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Whereas the opposition is the place for easy (illegal?) answers and concluding the government or any Tory within a 10-mile radius is automatically to blame before the facts are known.

clapham_gull · Jun 15, 2017

Live by the sea said:
This time he wants to take away any vacant legally owned property in Kensington and rehouse the people caught in that terrible fire.

I feel as sorry as everyone else does about that tragedy but stealing other people's property is clearly not the answer.

Corbyn really is a Marxist lowlife. Embarrassing how close we came to this moron gaining power

You are a disgrace.

Come up here and take a look, I walk past it every morning.

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Bozza · Jun 15, 2017

CFAHB said:
the first one is easy the council SHOULD be charging 150% community charge on empty homes.They only need to check the records to find the unused investment properties.

Buzzer said:
There is a very easy way for some of the properties. You can apply for a council tax rebate if your house is empty. Councils also have the right to charge up to an extra 50% council tax if a house has been empty for more than 2 years. I'd start with any houses with either a rebate or a surcharge. I've no idea how councils do this but the process is already in place.

https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/second-homes-and-empty-properties

If I owned a multi-million pound property in Kensington, why on earth would I care about a few quid on council tax? Why would I register? It would be more hassle than it's worth.

Bozza · Jun 15, 2017

lawros left foot said:
Funny though how the Government can do things quickly and efficiently if it really puts its mind to it, oh and if its politically expedient, ie, the Falklands war,anti rave laws in the Eighties,a replacement for the Poll tax.

It's not funny at all though is it?

The government can, by and large, send UK armed forces wherever they like whenever they like. It's what having armed forces is all about.

Although I don't know specifics of the laws you cite, I can't imagine someone came up with the idea on a Thursday and they were the law of the land the very next day. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

All of which is somewhat different from taking someone's house from them without knowing whether they've popped to Waitrose, are away on holiday or don't live there from one month to the next.

Neville's Breakfast · Jun 15, 2017

El Presidente said:
Regardless of one's political leanings, the extent of foreign ownership of property in the UK, especially London (and within that Kensington being particularly attractive) is scary.

Many of these properties are vacant, simply because the owners, who are frequently nameplate companies registered in tax havens, use them as a store of wealth, rather than as a dwelling.

Take a look at the Private Eye map of foreign ownership, note the prices of the properties, and ask yourself how did we let this happen?

https://suemarcar.carto.com/viz/9fc804fa-4b6b-11e5-a73d-0e0c41326911/embed_map

Yep and not just London. It is also happening in smaller towns within commuting distance of London. We need restrictions on ownership of property by non resident/non citizens of this country as at the moment the trend is towards ownership of
property by wealthy foreigners with less well off residents priced out of the market.

El Presidente · Jun 15, 2017

Neville's Breakfast said:
Yep and not just London. It is also happening in smaller towns within commuting distance of London. We need restrictions on ownership of property by non resident/non citizens of this country as at the moment the trend is towards ownership of
property by wealthy foreigners with less well off residents priced out of the market.

Agree with you in principle. Part of the problem is that because the UK has such a huge trade deficit with the rest of the world the government welcomes overseas investment (frequently the proceeds of money laundering) into the domestic real estate market to balance the books.

Take that money out of the system and the pound would nosedive, interest rates would have to rise and there would be a problem for the whole economy. It doesn't justify the current position, where both Labour and Tory governments have turned a blind eye to what has been happening.

CFAHB · Jun 15, 2017

I was talking to a work colleague today,he has 6 flats,his pension, he intends to retire in 6 years at 55. his right.
His tenants pay the mortgages on these homes so they are buying them for him,the system says that is his right.
He says he knows 3 of his tenants are on social security and he knows they are getting full Rent Rebates from the local council,he thinks 2 more might be getting "something". His flats,his right.
WE are buying for him 4-5 flats he intends to sell to provide him with early retirement.his right.
the bill we taxpayers are paying in Private Sector Rent Rebates has topped £18 BILLION ,to fuel the house price boom and give him a "decent pension pot" when he retires.

sir albion · Jun 15, 2017

Live by the sea said:
This time he wants to take away any vacant legally owned property in Kensington and rehouse the people caught in that terrible fire.

I feel as sorry as everyone else does about that tragedy but stealing other people's property is clearly not the answer.

Corbyn really is a Marxist lowlife. Embarrassing how close we came to this moron gaining power

Very much so....Awful tragedy but Kensington is all about the rich and it's their empty properties to do as they wish end of.
Now this detracts from the real issue....Yes the government/council doing jack shite and they should pay for hotels or find suitable accommodation near by for these poor souls.

Buzzer · Jun 15, 2017

Bozza said:
If I owned a multi-million pound property in Kensington, why on earth would I care about a few quid on council tax? Why would I register? It would be more hassle than it's worth.

I'm sure they don't but you were asking how we could know if a property is empty. If anyone has applied then we have our first candidates.

I don't work for local government so no idea how widespread this surcharge on empty properties is but if there are properties already identified and paying it then there are our second candidates. And if there is a process in place for councils to identify these sorts of properties then there's your answer on how the council will know for others. I'm sure it is fraught with all sorts of problems but there does appear to be a solution already in place.

Is it PotG? · Jun 15, 2017

sir albion said:
.Yes the government/council should pay for hotels or find suitable accommodation near by for these poor souls.

Is 100% correct, and I feel that busting open the door of a temporarily vacant east european oligarchs's pied-à-terre and bounding in is not the way.

Raleigh Chopper · Jun 15, 2017

Well somethings got to be done and quick, apparently Kensington has little or no spare housing, and most of London is similar, there was talk that they may be moved out of London, what about their jobs?
The thought of 3 or so families living in an empty Holland Park mansion for however long it takes makes me smile.
I really hope this is not going to descend into a buck passing episode.
The Government has to act and do the right thing now, no fannying about, prove you are a true leader May, talk is cheap.

lawros left foot · Jun 15, 2017

Bozza said:
It's not funny at all though is it?

The government can, by and large, send UK armed forces wherever they like whenever they like. It's what having armed forces is all about.

Although I don't know specifics of the laws you cite, I can't imagine someone came up with the idea on a Thursday and they were the law of the land the very next day. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

All of which is somewhat different from taking someone's house from them without knowing whether they've popped to Waitrose, are away on holiday or don't live there from one month to the next.

I think you are being a little obtuse with the popping to Waitrose comments, a lot of property in London is keot empty by large investment firms, no one actually lives in them, they are solely for the harvesting of profit. These are the properties that coukd be requisitioned for the short term. No one is suggesting it would be a long term solution, although in a country with a huge housing crisis, maybe something should be done, but, I doubt if it will be.There again, apparently, I'm a Marxist, so what would I know.

Guinness Boy · Jun 15, 2017

JC Footy Genius said:
Whereas the opposition is the place for easy (illegal?) answers and concluding the government or any Tory within a 10-mile radius is automatically to blame before the facts are known.

No idea what you mean when you say easy (illegal) answers. It's a general opinion about the risks of government. If you're talking about Tories within a 10 mile radius then I'd simply ask people to watch and listen to the last question in this interview and draw their own conclusions,

https://www.channel4.com/news/interview-nick-paget-brown-leader-of-kensington-and-chelsea-council

sir albion · Jun 15, 2017

lawros left foot said:
I think you are being a little obtuse with the popping to Waitrose comments, a lot of property in London is keot empty by large investment firms, no one actually lives in them, they are solely for the harvesting of profit. These are the properties that coukd be requisitioned for the short term. No one is suggesting it would be a long term solution, although in a country with a huge housing crisis, maybe something should be done, but, I doubt if it will be.There again, apparently, I'm a Marxist, so what would I know.

Nothing can be done as wether people live in them or not its irrelevant.This country's politicians are only interested in foreign investment and selling everything off and nothing has changed in decades and that's why the people at the bottom fight for the scraps in our society.Money is more important than lives now and even though we may get told otherwise we all know everything revolves around the big buck.

sir albion · Jun 15, 2017

Raleigh Chopper said:
Well somethings got to be done and quick, apparently Kensington has little or no spare housing, and most of London is similar, there was talk that they may be moved out of London, what about their jobs?
The thought of 3 or so families living in an empty Holland Park mansion for however long it takes makes me smile.
I really hope this is not going to descend into a buck passing episode.
The Government has to act and do the right thing now, no fannying about, prove you are a true leader May, talk is cheap.

Many people are being shipped out of London especially the ones on benefits....Been going on for years as the London cleansing continues....

lawros left foot · Jun 15, 2017

sir albion said:
Nothing can be done as wether people live in them or not its irrelevant.This country's politicians are only interested in foreign investment and selling everything off and nothing has changed in decades and that's why the people at the bottom fight for the scraps in our society.Money is more important than lives now and even though we may get told otherwise we all know everything revolves around the big buck.

I quite agre, Sir Albion, the political will isn't there to take on multi-nationals, hedge funds, or people investing in propert to the detriment of actual citizens of this country.

Pevenseagull · Jun 15, 2017

Live by the sea said:
This time he wants to take away any vacant legally owned property in Kensington and rehouse the people caught in that terrible fire.

I feel as sorry as everyone else does about that tragedy but stealing other people's property is clearly not the answer.

Corbyn really is a Marxist lowlife. Embarrassing how close we came to this moron gaining power

I feel sorry for you.

You are wasting your go.

House people in vacant properties, allow them to have the support of their local community after their friends and children have died.

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Corbyn' s at it again !

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