New diesel and petrol vehicles to be banned from 2040 in UK

studio150 · Jul 26, 2017

No new petrol/diesel cars from 2040, but how long will it take to work through the car parc, 20 years? for older vehicles to be scrapped.

Also unless the development of batteries has reach the stage where the range is up to 400 miles with all the usual electrics inside the car working, and a recharge takes no more than 15 minutes then the take up will still be below projections. This is assuming that the economy of scale has kicked in and the cost of new electrics is lower in comparison than now.

The life of the battery also needs to be resolved, as well as the position of the battery as to whether it is sold as part of the vehicle or leased from the manufacturer.

Also how far will the technology of self drive vehicles have advanced by 2040, as those on this thread who are already looking forward to their 80th birthdays, may still be fully mobile in a self drive vehicle.

Still 0-60 in 500 volts has a new ring as a dealers selling point.

severnside gull · Jul 26, 2017

Complete and utter bollocks isn't it?
Sound bite for the masses.
Claim credit for something that may or may not ever happen and working towards which you need to do nothing.
Meanwhile, with action needed now, nothing is precisely what the government propose doing.
:shrug:

studio150 · Jul 26, 2017

AmexRuislip said:
I suppose on the plus side, we will all be in a Scalextric world

See as how we failed to have a joined up approach to the electrification of railways, I would expect the south to be Scalextric with the rest of the country as Dodgem cars with an overhead current.

The Large One · Jul 26, 2017

severnside gull said:
Complete and utter bollocks isn't it?
Sound bite for the masses.
Claim credit for something that may or may not ever happen and working towards which you need to do nothing.
Meanwhile, with action needed now, nothing is precisely what the government propose doing.

No. If France is going to do it, there's a good chance other countries will follow suit.

What is needed, however, is a far more comprehensive clean air set of policies; more than this announcement can deliver.

JamesAndTheGiantHead · Jul 26, 2017

That may be an MOT too far for my trusty Golf :nono:

Uter · Jul 26, 2017

The Large One said:
It's sales of new cars, not banning petrol / diesel cars. So petrol / diesel will still be needed - albeit at a diminishing rate.

However, 23 years' time is still a long way away, with no rhyme or reason as to why this date was picked. This policy is merely tinkering at the sides, and doesn't address ongoing pollution issues.

It is a long time, but I suspect change will come sooner anyway as I think most manufacturers will not be making many (any?) diesel or petrol cars or vans in 10 or 15 years.

Quite why the need today to appease diesel owners trumps people's right to breathe clean air is beyond me.

Stat Brother · Jul 26, 2017

The Large One said:
Actually, it does to a point.

The money being given to local authorities is with a view to altering - where necessary - road layouts, traffic flow and so on to improve air quality. This might well include new bus/cycle lanes. Of course, it depends how many local authorities (a) need that money and (b) have in place a plan which they can now afford.

The thinking just isn't there for that, anyway £200m isn't even a drop in the ocean

What does this actually mean:-

Environment Secretary Michael Gove said the government would give more than £200m to local authorities to draw up plans to tackle particular roads with high pollution.
"What we're saying to local authorities is come up with an imaginative solution to these proposals," he told the Today programme.

£200m to do feasibility studies, then who pays for the successful 'bids'.

A scheme to build what will be an unused cycle lane between Middleton and Clymping, and a few other alterations around Littlehampton, is currently budgeted for £24m.

The Large One · Jul 26, 2017

Uter said:
It is a long time, but I suspect change will come sooner anyway as I think most manufacturers will not be making many (any?) diesel or petrol cars or vans in 10 or 15 years.

Quite why the need today to appease diesel owners trumps people's right to breathe clean air is beyond me.

If successful, this will also MASSIVELY change the geo-politics of the world.

There will be a massive uptake in electricity consumption, which can be met by investing in ever-cheapening green technologies. It will mean that the oil producing countries will no longer have the power they once had on the world stage - not just for producing fuel, but for producing energy.

I'm thinking the USA will be massively opposed to this notion on such an international scale, for one. They could embrace the new technologies if they wish, though the culture may dictate otherwise.

The Large One · Jul 26, 2017

Stat Brother said:
The thinking just isn't there for that, anyway £200m isn't even a drop in the ocean

What does this actually mean:-

Environment Secretary Michael Gove said the government would give more than £200m to local authorities to draw up plans to tackle particular roads with high pollution.
"What we're saying to local authorities is come up with an imaginative solution to these proposals," he told the Today programme.

£200m to do feasibility studies, then who pays for the successful 'bids'.

A scheme to build what will be an unused cycle lane between Middleton and Clymping, and a few other alterations around Littlehampton, is currently budgeted for £24m.

Is the road between Middleton and Clymping a major problem for city centre traffic pollution, though?

You're right that £200m will go nowhere, but once this genie is unbottled, it's incumbent on those who campaign to make sure it never goes back in.

RandyWanger · Jul 26, 2017

knocky1 said:
That's going to be a £29 billion shortfall in tax revenue at today's prices and a lot of investment in charging points needed. Sure battery charging will change by 2040.

I'll certainly have time to enjoy the 3.4 Litre V6 Toyota Granvia Ambulance Japanese Import I've ordered. LPG to be added I hasten to add.

Is it one of those crazy modified vans with air brushed art and silly body work?

Notters · Jul 26, 2017

The Large One said:
Actually, it does to a point.

The money being given to local authorities is with a view to altering - where necessary - road layouts, traffic flow and so on to improve air quality. This might well include new bus/cycle lanes. Of course, it depends how many local authorities (a) need that money and (b) have in place a plan which they can now afford.

Traffic itself may not be so directly affected. As soon as people know that an electric car is as reliable, as good performance-wise, as economical, and as good all-round as what they have now, there will be a hastening to switch. Industry's challenge is to give people something they already have in terms of experience and lifestyle, but with fewer environmental concerns.

I had a meeting with a chap who's an expert in this specific area this morning. He seemed to think that local authorities have done pretty much all they can on this front making the government's plan even more baffling.

Local authorities are also down to the bare bones now - I have to deal with their air quality specialists on a daily basis. Lewes used to have several (along with experts in noise, contamination, etc.) They now have one or two people dealing with all these things together, and they're soon going to be shared with Eastbourne as well!

BLOCK F · Jul 26, 2017

In the immortal words of Johnny Nash 1972:
There Are More Questions Than Answers.
In the meantime, I suppose there is little or no incentive for car manufacturers to put more research into producing cleaner more efficient diesel and petrol cars, which isn't going to help.
Call me a cynic, but I reckon this announcement is a softening up of the public for mega fuel duty increases in Spreadseet's next budget.
23 years time

The Government may not be in power in 23 months time!

The Large One · Jul 26, 2017

Notters said:
I had a meeting with a chap who's an expert in this specific area this morning. He seemed to think that local authorities have done pretty much all they can on this front making the government's plan even more baffling.

Local authorities are also down to the bare bones now - I have to deal with their air quality specialists on a daily basis. Lewes used to have several (along with experts in noise, contamination, etc.) They now have one or two people dealing with all these things together, and they're soon going to be shared with Eastbourne as well!

And they're also miffed that they're being told to charge diesel cars entering town centres if they don't come up with a plan (which would need to include banning certain vehicles at certain times of the day), which is pretty rich considering how much the government has encouraged the sale of diesel cars in the first place.

Stat Brother · Jul 26, 2017

The Large One said:
Is the road between Middleton and Clymping a major problem for city centre traffic pollution, though?

You're right that £200m will go nowhere, but once this genie is unbottled, it's incumbent on those who campaign to make sure it never goes back in.

Good god no, more of an example as to how £200m is loose change and how completely pointless it is to give it to local government.

severnside gull · Jul 26, 2017

The Large One said:
No. If France is going to do it, there's a good chance other countries will follow suit.

What is needed, however, is a far more comprehensive clean air set of policies; more than this announcement can deliver.

"More than this announcement can deliver" won't take much.
This announcement delivers absolutely nothing whatsoever beyond a vague suggestion that we will consider following where others lead 20 years after they've actually taken action. There is no plan. No proposal how we will get there. Just words strung together.
It's bollocks. Really :lolol:

Gwylan · Jul 26, 2017

BLOCK F said:
In the meantime, I suppose there is little or no incentive for car manufacturers to put more research into producing cleaner more efficient diesel and petrol cars, which isn't going to help.

Most manufacturers are already planning to move to electric models anyway - Volvo is to stop making petrol/diesel cars in 2019 and you can bet others will follow. IMHO, there'll be few petrol cars in the UK by 2030 - or 2035 at the latest.

And we'll also have begun the move to self-driving models by then, car ownership will be way down.

The thing that baffles me is that there's this worldwide call to reduce air pollution by reducing carbon emissions yet, at the same time, there's a scramble to build more airports to support increased air traffic - increasing carbon emissions. That doesn't compute.

Stat Brother · Jul 26, 2017

Gwylan said:
The thing that baffles me is that there's this worldwide call to reduce air pollution by reducing carbon emissions yet, at the same time, there's a scramble to build more airports to support increased air traffic - increasing carbon emissions. That doesn't compute.

You're doing that thing again, you're applying logic and holistic thinking to a global crisis.

That's just silly.

1066familyman · Jul 26, 2017

Will electric cars ever be fitted with some sort of enhanced engine noise I wonder? Currently electric cars can be alarmingly quiet and frighten the life out of unsuspecting pedestrians and cyclists when they sneak up on you.

Could perhaps the spotty yoofs that run around on those really bloody noisy mopeds be empowered to help out here?

Or maybe get school kids to design wheels for electric cars that have spokes and a place to fit a clothes peg and a playing card to give that real authentic racing car sound :shrug:

BLOCK F · Jul 26, 2017

Gwylan said:
Most manufacturers are already planning to move to electric models anyway - Volvo is to stop making petrol/diesel cars in 2019 and you can bet others will follow. IMHO, there'll be few petrol cars in the UK by 2030 - or 2035 at the latest.

And we'll also have begun the move to self-driving models by then, car ownership will be way down.

The thing that baffles me is that there's this worldwide call to reduce air pollution by reducing carbon emissions yet, at the same time, there's a scramble to build more airports to support increased air traffic - increasing carbon emissions. That doesn't compute.

I can't agree that there will be few petrol cars in 2030. That is only 13 years away and I reckon there will be plenty of diesel and petrol cars still on the roads of the UK.
It is one hell of a leap to change from making a few electric cars to mass producing them at a price that the general public will be able to afford. Additionally, a huge change in infrastructure is required to enable recharging.I am no electrical engineer, but I venture to say that there will have to certain changes made to the electricity grid all over the country. How far off are we from batteries that will be able to cover a reasonable distance? As one Sky presenter said today, her smart phone battery won't last a circuit of the M25, let alone a car.
As far as air travel is concerned, let technology lead the way. Woebetide any Government who puts the mockers on global travel! The same can be said of the cruise liners, they belch out vast amounts of pollution, but are very popular. Any restrictions on the populace's ability to travel freely and as they wish will go down like a lead balloon. Lots of work to be done and I doubt we are as close to electric utopia as some would imagine.

bhanutz · Jul 26, 2017

I blame the GREENS! Oi Lucas..What you doing? Retire please!

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