[Politics] Brexit

Hamilton · May 20, 2016

pastafarian said:
It was Paxmans very own WTF moment.
Everyone was agreeing moving parliaments is crazy.

MEP Catherine Bearder explaining it to him was very forthcoming…."EU parliament was voted on numerous occasions to do away with Strasbourg,but its in the treaties so would need treaty change,and we all know what treaty change means these days…….another referendum………and we don’t wont those"

That’s how you do reform and meaningful change EU style.
By simply not doing it

I think that this is the reform that people on both sides of the argument agree is necessary.

It's very easy for the Leave campaign to point at everything about Europe and scream incredulity at. The Remain campaign want to remain, but at the same time recognise the need for reform. The EU is a complex beast, it is not perfect, but as Paxman alluded to on his programme - are we really better off out of it? If you watched and listening objectively, you could see Paxman sneering at everybody. In many ways, his presentation style is useless, but the BBC is obliged to be unbiased (something that they do a good job at.)

Deleted member 22389 · May 20, 2016

Hamilton said:
I think that this is the reform that people on both sides of the argument agree is necessary.

It's very easy for the Leave campaign to point at everything about Europe and scream incredulity at. The Remain campaign want to remain, but at the same time recognise the need for reform. The EU is a complex beast, it is not perfect, but as Paxman alluded to on his programme - are we really better off out of it? If you watched and listening objectively, you could see Paxman sneering at everybody. In many ways, his presentation style is useless, but the BBC is obliged to be unbiased (something that they do a good job at.)

I want reform on migration from the EU, this would need to be accepted by all the other countries first, it's not going to happen is it. That is the problem that runs to the very heart of the EU.
If we can't change a simple thing like this, then we are better off OUT. Just further proof of how much control the EU has over us.

pastafarian · May 20, 2016

Hamilton said:
I think that this is the reform that people on both sides of the argument agree is necessary.

It's very easy for the Leave campaign to point at everything about Europe and scream incredulity at. The Remain campaign want to remain, but at the same time recognise the need for reform. The EU is a complex beast, it is not perfect, but as Paxman alluded to on his programme - are we really better off out of it? If you watched and listening objectively, you could see Paxman sneering at everybody. In many ways, his presentation style is useless, but the BBC is obliged to be unbiased (something that they do a good job at.)

Doesnt matter if paxman sneers or not
Wont change the fact that there is no stomach to actually take the next step,change the treaties and remove the second parliament

Hamilton · May 20, 2016

bashlsdir said:
I want reform on migration from the EU, this would need to be accepted by all the others, it's not going to happen is it. That is the very problem with the EU
If we can't change a simple thing like this, then we are better off out of it.

How are we better off out of it? You simply can't argue that. Economically, culturally and considering aspects of security we are better off in. Yes, it needs reform, but don't turn your back on being part of a trade bloc that can deliver huge benefits to the UK.

At present every argument is being used to convince people of a very flimsy case for leaving.

Look at the latest on this thread. We have 10,000 foreigners in our gaols screams [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION]

Well, these figures are being a little overcooked to fuel his own anti-EU agenda?

Of the 10,000 in British gaols, 3,900 are from the EU.

That's a high number. Take into account that 770 of those EU nationals are Irish. Ireland is the only country with whom we have a truly open border - you do not need to show any form of passport to travel between the countries.

Outside of the EU, 630 inmates are from Jamaica, one country that has nothing to do with the EU debate. A further 1,900 are from across Asia and over 2,100 are from across Africa.

All these figures are publicly available to journalists so that they can draw their own intelligent conclusions. However, it's easier to scream a headline '10,000 foreigners in our gaols' and link that to the EU debate. It's crooked thinking and it won't do.

Hamilton · May 20, 2016

pastafarian said:
Doesnt matter if paxman sneers or not
Wont change the fact that there is no stomach to actually take the next step,change the treaties and remove the second parliament

I think that one of the big 3 having a referendum in itself shows that there will be the stomach for it.

Deleted member 22389 · May 20, 2016

When will Remain understand, the EU does not Reform, end of.

pastafarian · May 20, 2016

Hamilton said:
I think that one of the big 3 having a referendum in itself shows that there will be the stomach for it.

if that were the case they would just dont go ahead and do it.

Chief Wiggum · May 20, 2016

Reform to the EU will not come easily nor any time soon. It is dictatorial, top heavy and there would appear to be an unwillingness to change. Why would they change when there is not the necessary democratic processes in place to kick them up the ar5e. It is this attitude that could eventually be its demise whether or not the UK remains or leaves. The rise of the far left and the far right across the EU is a warning sign that should not be ignored. It is a sign of weak, ineffective democracy which leaves people disenfranchised, angry and resentful.

beorhthelm · May 20, 2016

Hamilton said:
I think that one of the big 3 having a referendum in itself shows that there will be the stomach for it.

if we vote remain, it says carry on regardless. if we vote out, its none of our business.

the cost of EU parliament buildings and movements is the veneer. the fact they cant even decide on a location for the parliament highlights the real problems at the hear to the EU project, the complex relationships between the nations that mean the EU is constantly in tension. they don't address real problems they continually "manage" issues without resolution. see Euro crisis and immigration crisis, still both rolling on, the former for about 7 years now.

pastafarian · May 20, 2016

Hamilton said:
How are we better off out of it? You simply can't argue that. Economically, culturally and considering aspects of security we are better off in. Yes, it needs reform, but don't turn your back on being part of a trade bloc that can deliver huge benefits to the UK.

At present every argument is being used to convince people of a very flimsy case for leaving.

Look at the latest on this thread. We have 10,000 foreigners in our gaols screams [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION]

Well, these figures are being a little overcooked to fuel his own anti-EU agenda?

Of the 10,000 in British gaols, 3,900 are from the EU.

That's a high number. Take into account that 770 of those EU nationals are Irish. Ireland is the only country with whom we have a truly open border - you do not need to show any form of passport to travel between the countries.

Outside of the EU, 630 inmates are from Jamaica, one country that has nothing to do with the EU debate. A further 1,900 are from across Asia and over 2,100 are from across Africa.

All these figures are publicly available to journalists so that they can draw their own intelligent conclusions. However, it's easier to scream a headline '10,000 foreigners in our gaols' and link that to the EU debate. It's crooked thinking and it won't do.

People coming to live and work here should be required to provide a Criminal Records Certificate, the cost is negligible. We can do this for non EU nationals, we cant for EU nationals as we don’t control our borders when it comes to the EU. That is a daft state of affairs.
We should have the right to have every legal means at our disposal to keep bad people out.

Hamilton · May 20, 2016

beorhthelm said:
if we vote remain, it says carry on regardless. if we vote out, its none of our business.

the cost of EU parliament buildings and movements is the veneer. the fact they cant even decide on a location for the parliament highlights the real problems at the hear to the EU project, the complex relationships between the nations that mean the EU is constantly in tension. they don't address real problems they continually "manage" issues without resolution. see Euro crisis and immigration crisis, still both rolling on, the former for about 7 years now.

The cost of Strasbourg is a waste, but it is nothing compared to the loss we will make outside of the EU.

Hamilton · May 20, 2016

pastafarian said:
People coming to live and work here should be required to provide a Criminal Records Certificate, the cost is negligible. We can do this for non EU nationals, we cant for EU nationals as we don’t control our borders when it comes to the EU. That is a daft state of affairs.
We should have the right to have every legal means at our disposal to keep bad people out.

We're doing a pretty bad job of it for those outside the EU already. Why do you believe we would do a better job if we left the EU? The evidence does not suggest we would.

Are you proposing a closed border with Ireland to reduce the number of Irish prisoners?

pastafarian · May 20, 2016

Hamilton said:
We're doing a pretty bad job of it for those outside the EU already. Why do you believe we would do a better job if we left the EU? The evidence does not suggest we would.

Are you proposing a closed border with Ireland to reduce the number of Irish prisoners?

we are doing a bad job of it i agree,successive governments have been awful on this matter.
the new programme being rolled out of criminal checks for non EU nationals is only a few months old and is currently being tested on Tier 1 people,that is to say people coming to live,work and invest here in business on a long term basis.We will have to wait for your evidence to see if this makes any impact at all.
If we left the EU we could roll out criminal checks to the equivalent tier of EU nationals.
Why are you against that level of added security and safety

Hamilton · May 20, 2016

pastafarian said:
we are doing a bad job of it i agree,successive governments have been awful on this matter.
the new programme being rolled out of criminal checks for non EU nationals is only a few months old and is currently being tested on Tier 1 people,that is to say people coming to live,work and invest here in business on a long term basis.We will have to wait for your evidence to see if this makes any impact at all.
If we left the EU we could roll out criminal checks to the equivalent tier of EU nationals.
Why are you against that level of added security and safety

Because I don't see it adding long-term value. The gaols argument is a smokescreen. The value in free trade is far far higher.

Sent from my iPhone using pineapple upside-down cake

pastafarian · May 20, 2016

Hamilton said:
Because I don't see it adding long-term value. The gaols argument is a smokescreen. The value in free trade is far far higher.

Sent from my iPhone using pineapple upside-down cake

you have a price for giving up safety and security and thats free trade,fair enough carry on and vote remain.
plenty of people have the opposite opinion

surrey jim · May 20, 2016

Bevendean Hillbilly said:
The curve ball here is the working class and the elderly. The elderly are for leave in the main as are the working class but, historically, the working class don't vote. I have a feeling they will on this occasion though.

I think the polls are wildly inaccurate with 56%remain and 37% leave. It'll be much closer than that. I do think that the naturalised Brits of foreign origin will swing it for in though.

Assuming you are referring to the IPOS poll of a day or so ago. Most of the others have been much closer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opini..._Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum

Hamilton · May 20, 2016

pastafarian said:
you have a price for giving up safety and security and thats free trade,fair enough carry on and vote remain.
plenty of people have the opposite opinion

You want me to vote us out of the EU so we can deal with 3,900 criminals? Are you mad?

Two Professors · May 20, 2016

I would imagine it is very difficult to get a sock-puppet to vote on anything official,and please get your medications back from Greg. :wink:

Pretty pink fairy · May 20, 2016

Hamilton said:
So, we do something about that by investing in the infrastructure required in order to grow the prosperity of the country.

Sent from my iPhone using pineapple upside-down cake

day dreamer, better of saving £350 million a week and putting it back into THIS country
regards
DR

Pretty pink fairy · May 20, 2016

Hamilton said:
You want me to vote us out of the EU so we can deal with 3,900 criminals? Are you mad?

yes because half of WANDSWORTH PRISON is full of them at the British tax payers expense :tosser:

regards
DR

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