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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?

  • Total voters
    1,081


Jim in the West

Jim in the West

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 13, 2003
4,560
Way out West
pastafarian said:
And lets not forget the remain side are now involved in the greatest lie of all. The whopper of all porkies. The lie that their so called “soft “ Brexit (remaining as members of the single market, which would mean having to keep free movement and having to keep The ECJ as the prime court) is somehow actually really leaving The EU. It isn’t.
I don’t know how they keep a straight face when peddling this rubbish. Do they really think no one has noticed they are talking balderdash?
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But let's not forget that the architect of Brexit himself (Dan Hannan) said DURING THE REFERENDUM CAMPAIGN that we should remain in the Single Market....his exact words: "Absolutely no-one is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market". Farage frequently used Norway as an example of what we should be aiming for (nb: in case you're not sure, Norway is OUT of the EU, but IN the Single Market). Key leaders of the Vote Leave campaign extolled the virtues of the Norwegian model.

So - if we're spouting balderdash, presumably that's the same balderdash as Hannan, Farage, Arron Banks, etc....?
 




T

The Rivet

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2011
4,512
Jim in the West said:
But let's not forget that the architect of Brexit himself (Dan Hannan) said DURING THE REFERENDUM CAMPAIGN that we should remain in the Single Market....his exact words: "Absolutely no-one is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market". Farage frequently used Norway as an example of what we should be aiming for (nb: in case you're not sure, Norway is OUT of the EU, but IN the Single Market). Key leaders of the Vote Leave campaign extolled the virtues of the Norwegian model.

So - if we're spouting balderdash, presumably that's the same balderdash as Hannan, Farage, Arron Banks, etc....?
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Tell us Jim, in bullet points, why you think it is imperative to stay under the yoke of the commission in Brussels.

I wont refute them or argue I just want to know.
 


pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Lincoln Imp said:
Dear Norwegian Embassy

You may not realise this, but your country is a member of the European Union. Pastafarian says so, so it must be true.

Yours etc
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Don’t be silly, you are inventing equivalence here.
The moaners are furious at any red line on ECJ influence, they want their “soft” Brexit to continue with full monitoring and enforcement by the ECJ, Norway has nothing like this level,(although it too suffers from mission creep against what was promised) its relationship with the EU is monitored and enforced by the EFTA Surveillance Authority and the EFTA Court. Moaners also want their “soft” Brexit to include being part of the customs union. Norway is not in the customs union.
Try being more honest, take off your weasel hat and give it a go.
 








pastafarian

pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
Jim in the West said:
But let's not forget that the architect of Brexit himself (Dan Hannan) said DURING THE REFERENDUM CAMPAIGN that we should remain in the Single Market....his exact words: "Absolutely no-one is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market". Farage frequently used Norway as an example of what we should be aiming for (nb: in case you're not sure, Norway is OUT of the EU, but IN the Single Market). Key leaders of the Vote Leave campaign extolled the virtues of the Norwegian model.

So - if we're spouting balderdash, presumably that's the same balderdash as Hannan, Farage, Arron Banks, etc....?
Click to expand...

The Architect of Brexit :lolol:
The remain campaign tried to pin Leave down on one single model. Norway model was widely rejected. Have you forgotten this already.

Here are a couple of quotes that should help you resolve your memory.

Dan Hannan "Repeat after me. Single market membership and single market access are not the same thing"

Theresa May " “We seek a new and equal partnership – between an independent, self-governing, global Britain and our friends and allies in the EU. Not partial membership of the European Union, associate membership of the European Union, or anything that leaves us half-in, half-out. We do not seek to adopt a model already enjoyed by other countries. We do not seek to hold on to bits of membership as we leave.”
 




L

Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
pastafarian said:
Don’t be silly, you are inventing equivalence here.
The moaners are furious at any red line on ECJ influence, they want their “soft” Brexit to continue with full monitoring and enforcement by the ECJ, Norway has nothing like this level,(although it too suffers from mission creep against what was promised) its relationship with the EU is monitored and enforced by the EFTA Surveillance Authority and the EFTA Court. Moaners also want their “soft” Brexit to include being part of the customs union. Norway is not in the customs union.
Try being more honest, take off your weasel hat and give it a go.
Click to expand...

Usual stuff. 1. You suggest that adopting a soft Brexit would not be leaving the EU and anyone saying otherwise is, naturally, a liar. 2. It is pointed out that Norway, whose relationship with the EU shares many of the characteristics of a soft Brexit, is in fact not a member of the EU (yes, Norway is not a member of the customs union but on the other hand its border controls are looser than a soft Brexit UK would have). 3. You then resort to your dreary moaners and weasel rhetoric.
 












Jim in the West

Jim in the West

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 13, 2003
4,560
Way out West
The Rivet said:
Tell us Jim, in bullet points, why you think it is imperative to stay under the yoke of the commission in Brussels.

I wont refute them or argue I just want to know.
Click to expand...

Good question - not sure everyone is that interested, but here goes (in no particular order):

1. All my adult life I have been able to live and work wherever I like in the EU. On 30th March 2019 that huge privilege will be taken away from me and 60 million others - including millions of young people who didn't have the opportunity to vote, and countless million more in the future.
2. Peace
3. Collaboration with our nearest neighbours on all manner of issues (security, people trafficking, cyber crime....)
4. Consumer, environmental, human rights, employee protection (etc, etc) - just wait until the Tories get their hands on the UK post Brexit...
5. Significantly higher levels of growth (our GDP is around 5% greater as a result of our membership of the EU)
6. FDI - Foreign Direct Investment - many, many companies set up bases in the UK as an entrance to the EU - we get these benefits without really trying
7. A Single Market makes huge sense - so much bureaucracy removed, common standards, freedom to trade without tariffs or customs checks across a market of 500m people. Pricing distortions removed, cheaper goods and services

I could go on. One other reason (and I'm almost certainly in a minority here) is that I don't trust our own political system or our own politicians. Some form of governance from Europe is a welcome brake on the more extreme tendencies (especially in the Tory party).
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,463
The Fatherland
Jim in the West said:
Good question - not sure everyone is that interested, but here goes (in no particular order):

1. All my adult life I have been able to live and work wherever I like in the EU. On 30th March 2019 that huge privilege will be taken away from me and 60 million others - including millions of young people who didn't have the opportunity to vote, and countless million more in the future.
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Very much this. If I was a youngster I'd be ****ing fuming that a load of uneducated, unimaginative and unadventurous bods from the likes of Stoke and Burnley are dictating my future.
 


Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
20,989
The arse end of Hangleton
Herr Tubthumper said:
Very much this. If I was a youngster I'd be ****ing fuming that a load of uneducated, unimaginative and unadventurous bods from the likes of Stoke and Burnley are dictating my future.
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And I felt the same about those that voted in 1975 - they tried to dictate my future. Regardless, people will still be able to live and work elsewhere - the opportunity isn't being shut - it will be subject to some rules - like it was when I wanted to work in Australia. I was still able and did work in Australia.
 




JC Footy Genius

JC Footy Genius

Bringer of TRUTH
Jun 9, 2015
10,568
Negotiations are going well ...

Divisions over the UK’s Brexit divorce bill were laid bare on Tuesday as British negotiators pushed back against a mooted €75bn (£66bn) Brexit charge.

On the second day of detailed Brexit negotiations, the British team peppered the Brussels side with questions over how to pay for unwinding 44 years of the UK’s European Union membership.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...r-britains-brexit-divorce-bill-mooted-at-66bn

Britain has warned the EU that it could return boatloads of radioactive waste back to the continent if the Brexit talks fail to deliver an agreement on nuclear regulation.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-radioactive-waste-to-eu-without-nuclear-deal
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,463
The Fatherland
Westdene Seagull said:
And I felt the same about those that voted in 1975 - they tried to dictate my future. Regardless, people will still be able to live and work elsewhere - the opportunity isn't being shut - it will be subject to some rules - like it was when I wanted to work in Australia. I was still able and did work in Australia.
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And if you put rules in place it will shut off many jobs to British people. My friend runs a business and he employs English speaking maths types. He has said the minute any employment red tape is introduced he won't bother consider Brits....in the same way he doesn't bother with yanks or Aussies. He also pointed out Britain doesn't have the monopoly on smart fluent English speaking maths grads. I've heard the same from others.

And In the same why I can't just rock up in the US and work in a bar Brits won't be able to rock up in the EU and work in a coffee shop. I think this is wrong.
 


DavidinSouthampton

DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
16,566
JC Footy Genius said:
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The Remoaner loons aren't representative of Remain supporters let alone the country. 70% still believe in democracy :salute:
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All I was saying was that the Country was not united behind BREXIT. What you have posted proves that as far as I am concerned. I don't know if you were trying to prove the opposite.

I would count myself among the 26% Re-Leavers, but I still think that voting to leave the EU is the biggest mistake that the British People have ever made collectively in my lifetime.
 


Mtoto

Mtoto

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2003
1,841
Nobody tried to dictate your future. What you "felt" was just that - a feeling. It was still up to you which path you chose. You went to Australia. That was your choice. Good for you.

What you have now done by voting for Brexit - as you approach the other end of your life - is reduce the opportunities and possibilities open to my children, and every last one of the 800,000 or so 17-year-olds who will turn 18 in 2017. And the 800,000 in 2018, and every year after that. You voted to deny or restrict all of them from easy access to choices that were open to you - and yet you'll still expect them to graft away as hard as they can to pay your pension.
 




D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
Mtoto said:
Nobody tried to dictate your future. What you "felt" was just that - a feeling. It was still up to you which path you chose. You went to Australia. That was your choice. Good for you.

What you have now done by voting for Brexit - as you approach the other end of your life - is reduce the opportunities and possibilities open to my children, and every last one of the 800,000 or so 17-year-olds who will turn 18 in 2017. And the 800,000 in 2018, and every year after that. You voted to deny or restrict all of them from easy access to choices that were open to you - and yet you'll still expect them to graft away as hard as they can to pay your pension.
Click to expand...

Our governments showing zero support to British manufacturing over the years, mass immigration, cheap goods imported from China, advances in technology, the way we shop looking for the cheapest product, and the 2008 banking crisis have all contributed to the job situation we see today, long before Brexit, and that is the same for every single young person across EU. Just my opinion.
 
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Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,463
The Fatherland
Mtoto said:
Nobody tried to dictate your future. What you "felt" was just that - a feeling. It was still up to you which path you chose. You went to Australia. That was your choice. Good for you.

What you have now done by voting for Brexit - as you approach the other end of your life - is reduce the opportunities and possibilities open to my children, and every last one of the 800,000 or so 17-year-olds who will turn 18 in 2017. And the 800,000 in 2018, and every year after that. You voted to deny or restrict all of them from easy access to choices that were open to you - and yet you'll still expect them to graft away as hard as they can to pay your pension.
Click to expand...

Well put.
 


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