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[Humour] Most of us are in favour of organ donation right?



btnbelle

btnbelle

New member
Apr 26, 2017
1,438
Bold Seagull said:
I think in most cases they do wait until the patient is dead before taking the organs. :thumbsup:
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Yes they do now.

Maybe one day, we will get to a point where the priority is the living recipient. The brain dead but still alive donor and their family may become secondary, I hope not......
 




btnbelle

btnbelle

New member
Apr 26, 2017
1,438
Postman Pat said:
To be fair there are quite a few that would be crossed out on that criteria....2nd hand dart board springs to mind.
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Trouble is with your criteria, you can never be sure anyone is safe. It's not like everyone would admit to spending intimate time with Katie Price.....
 












Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,778
Hove
btnbelle said:
Yes they do now.

Maybe one day, we will get to a point where the priority is the living recipient. The brain dead but still alive donor and their family may become secondary, I hope not......
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how this scenario changes between opt in or opt out? Right now, anyone whether they've opted in or not can have their organs donated if their next of kin consent.

I don't think the legality or moral guidance of medical professional changes – you're scenario could come to pass in either scenario.

As said before, I think the one thing 'opt-out' does is empower those that don't want to donate, as their wishes would be on a register whereas they are not now. If Uncle Bill gives the nod to the doctors, your organs could be gone whether you like it or not.

Safeguarding and procedure as far as I can see doesn't change. In Spain they have high levels of donation, but their Opt-Out doesn't work like people are supposing as it still revolves around consent of next of kin, however it merely sets up a framework where donation is assumed so it's down to families to refuse rather than consent which is a subtle legal difference, but does appear to lead to more donations coupled with highly trained professionals to talk families through decisions.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
49,867
Faversham
btnbelle said:
I was meaning at some point in the future, thoughts will evolve. Dr's may feel pressured into taking organs before someone dies naturally and relatives might not get to the hospital in time. I know this would not be the case in the near future. Relatives must always be present before a life support machine can be switched off.
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Rumours about this (bits sliced out while the donor was still chatting with the priest giving the last rites) surfaced in the mid 80s, due to a reckless episode of 'world in action' or somesuch. The result was that the 'I told you so' brigade of utter morons fuelled the fake news, and people threw away their donor cards. No smoke without fire, etc etc. :rant:

But I do like the fact that this thread has been utterly hijacked from its original purpose. Very NSC :lolol:
 




Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,778
Hove
Harry Wilson's tackle said:
Rumours about this (bits sliced out while the donor was still chatting with the priest giving the last rites) surfaced in the mid 80s, due to a reckless episode of 'world in action' or somesuch. The result was that the 'I told you so' brigade of utter morons fuelled the fake news, and people threw away their donor cards. No smoke without fire, etc etc. :rant:

But I do like the fact that this thread has been utterly hijacked from its original purpose. Very NSC :lolol:
Click to expand...

I thought it was Peter James's Dead Tomorrow!
 


btnbelle

btnbelle

New member
Apr 26, 2017
1,438
Bold Seagull said:
I'm not sure how this scenario changes between opt in or opt out? Right now, anyone whether they've opted in or not can have their organs donated if their next of kin consent.

I don't the legality or moral guidance of medical professional changes – you're scenario could come to pass in either scenario.

As said before, I think the one thing 'opt-out' does is empower those that don't want to donate, as their wishes would be on a register whereas they are not now. If Uncle Bill gives the nod to the doctors, your organs could be gone whether you like it or not.

Safeguarding and procedure as far as I can see doesn't change. In Spain they have high levels of donation, but their Opt-Out doesn't work like people are supposing as it still revolves around consent of next of kin, however it merely sets up a framework where donation is assumed so it's down to families to refuse rather than consent which is a subtle legal difference, but does appear to lead to more donations coupled with highly trained professionals to talk families through decisions.
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The point of the thread was humour....

It was hijacked by reality.....

Some people want to donate but don't want the state to make the decision.
 








1066familyman

1066familyman

Radio User
Jan 15, 2008
15,185
Bold Seagull said:
So you're quite happy to take the 'state control' when treating you in a medical emergency, giving you blood, plasma, maybe even a transplant to save your life, or whatever else is needed to keep you alive, but they're not allowed to take your organs after your death to save someone else?

Maybe opting out should also include opting out of receiving blood or donated organs yourselves?
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You're making a lot of assumptions there. Are you party to discussions I've had with my relatives? You can turn it into a selfish vs charitable argument if you like, but you know full well that it's not as black and white as that.
 


jonnyrovers

jonnyrovers

mostly tinpot
Aug 13, 2013
1,181
Shoreham-by-Sea
1066familyman said:
So in a 'opt out' system, what safeguards will be in place for those without mental capacity? Very easy to remove all children from an opt out system, just determine the cut off age, but a whole can of worms when it comes to mental capacity.

I'm vehemently opposed to an opt out system. It seems to me to be the very worst of state control in our lives to give the state ownership of our bodies unless we sign to say, No. It is a very dangerous move to take to address the current organ shortage. We should concentrate our efforts on mobilising the huge numbers of people who claim to support organ donation but who are not currently on the register. Also, relatives should not have the right to deny the final wishes of relatives that are on the register.
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If you refer to an underlying lack of mental capacity rendering a person incapable of choosing to opt out, that would suggest pre existing disease and would likely render that persons organs unsuitable for transplant. Where family advocates are non existent, an IMCA (independent mental capacity advocate) would be sourced to ensure all decisions made on behalf of the patient were in their best interest.

If you refer to the mental capacity of the brain dead organ donation candidate in intensive care, he or she by default does not have mental capacity so family and health professionals will act based on their expressed wishes and/or in their best interest.


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jonnyrovers

jonnyrovers

mostly tinpot
Aug 13, 2013
1,181
Shoreham-by-Sea
Bold Seagull said:
I think in most cases they do wait until the patient is dead before taking the organs. :thumbsup:
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The donor patient needs to be alive in order to perfuse the organ tissue with oxygen during the harvest. Following the organ harvest the donor patient is obviously unable to survive and dies.

You are right that the donor is technically dead once it is established that she/he is unable to survive without life supporting treatment.


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jonnyrovers

jonnyrovers

mostly tinpot
Aug 13, 2013
1,181
Shoreham-by-Sea
Bold Seagull said:
So you're quite happy to take the 'state control' when treating you in a medical emergency, giving you blood, plasma, maybe even a transplant to save your life, or whatever else is needed to keep you alive, but they're not allowed to take your organs after your death to save someone else?

Maybe opting out should also include opting out of receiving blood or donated organs yourselves?
Click to expand...

An excellent moral maze to work through there!!


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jonnyrovers

jonnyrovers

mostly tinpot
Aug 13, 2013
1,181
Shoreham-by-Sea
btnbelle said:
Yes they do now.

Maybe one day, we will get to a point where the priority is the living recipient. The brain dead but still alive donor and their family may become secondary, I hope not......
Click to expand...

The priority is a dignified death for the potential donor, where his/her wishes are understood and acted on by all concerned. I honestly can’t see that changing.


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btnbelle

btnbelle

New member
Apr 26, 2017
1,438
jonnyrovers said:
If you refer to an underlying lack of mental capacity rendering a person incapable of choosing to opt out, that would suggest pre existing disease and would likely render that persons organs unsuitable for transplant. Where family advocates are non existent, an IMCA (independent mental capacity advocate) would be sourced to ensure all decisions made on behalf of the patient were in their best interest.

If you refer to the mental capacity of the brain dead organ donation candidate in intensive care, he or she by default does not have mental capacity so family and health professionals will act based on their expressed wishes and/or in their best interest.


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Click to expand...

Some people don't want to opt out, because they want to donate.

They just don't like the idea that their body is property of the state. It is how it feels to them when the decision to opt in, is taken away.
 




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