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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,077


ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,729
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
I think you'll allowing a few loud remainers suggesting that Brexit is dead to get to you. As per my post you quoted, some of them don't seem to understand that legislation MUST be passed to stop us leaving on the 29th March - it would appear all of a sudden they don't understand what the process of passing legislation is or indeed how long it takes.

MPs next get a vote on this on the 29th Jan. That leaves 2 sitting days in January after that. There are 12 sitting days in February thanks to the recess ( there are rumours this will be cancelled but as yet this hasn't happened ) and finally 16 sitting days in March. That makes a grand total of 30 sitting days between now and leave day. Also remember parliament is in a muddle at the moment with no clear view. Tories won't shift, Labour are sulking and the other parties don't hold enough numbers to change anything by themselves. Unless someone pulls a rabbit out of a hat then we're leaving on the 29th March.

I appreciate to an anarchist like you you're not bothered, but we're completely and utterly, utterly ****ed if we do and everything right now will look like the Teddy Bears picnic at Westminster and in the country at large if it happens.

You're the one who doesn't comprehend the myriad of legislation required to avoid total political chaos and legal, both domestic and internationally, limbo in the event of your no deal fantasy. It's not going to happen.

Still, anarchy in The UK and Brexit at any price and lets take The Republic of Ireland of down with us, eh? :thumbsup:
 
D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
I think you'll allowing a few loud remainers suggesting that Brexit is dead to get to you. As per my post you quoted, some of them don't seem to understand that legislation MUST be passed to stop us leaving on the 29th March - it would appear all of a sudden they don't understand what the process of passing legislation is or indeed how long it takes.

MPs next get a vote on this on the 29th Jan. That leaves 2 sitting days in January after that. There are 12 sitting days in February thanks to the recess ( there are rumours this will be cancelled but as yet this hasn't happened ) and finally 16 sitting days in March. That makes a grand total of 30 sitting days between now and leave day. Also remember parliament is in a muddle at the moment with no clear view. Tories won't shift, Labour are sulking and the other parties don't hold enough numbers to change anything by themselves. Unless someone pulls a rabbit out of a hat then we're leaving on the 29th March.

That's cleared up some doubts for me, thanks for this.
 

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,546
Cumbria
I think you'll allowing a few loud remainers suggesting that Brexit is dead to get to you. As per my post you quoted, some of them don't seem to understand that legislation MUST be passed to stop us leaving on the 29th March - it would appear all of a sudden they don't understand what the process of passing legislation is or indeed how long it takes.

MPs next get a vote on this on the 29th Jan. That leaves 2 sitting days in January after that. There are 12 sitting days in February thanks to the recess ( there are rumours this will be cancelled but as yet this hasn't happened ) and finally 16 sitting days in March. That makes a grand total of 30 sitting days between now and leave day. Also remember parliament is in a muddle at the moment with no clear view. Tories won't shift, Labour are sulking and the other parties don't hold enough numbers to change anything by themselves. Unless someone pulls a rabbit out of a hat then we're leaving on the 29th March.

The ruling I read a while back said that Article 50 could be revoked without legislation. That is, if the Government are instructed by Parliament to revoke it, they can do so. Given the clear majority not to leave with no deal, I suspect that this could be as late as they wish. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-cancel-stop-revoke-article-50-explained-remain-stay-eu-latest-parliament-theresa-may-a8690886.html
 

Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
Nigel thinks the MEP elections in May will still take place. Apparently Nick Farage is looking for a new party to represent. Is he Nigel's brother?

[tweet]1086232491973722112[/tweet]
 


Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Well said.
The breakdown of trust and the disintegration of the accountability relationship of parliament to the public should not be underplayed and so easily dismissed as an irrelevance.

If members of the public have a problem with members of parliament then, as you have many times observed, they can vote them out. The formal accountability of MPs to voters has not changed - it remains as it always has done in our representative democracy. What has changed in recent days is that the mother of parliaments has regained some of the powers that have been lost over the years to an overweening executive - the bullying patronage of our political parties has been going on for decades but May's contemptible (literally) regime has been the worst.

If Brexit was reversed there would doubtless be some public disturbance. I understand that. Some MPs who feel that Brexit is not in the national interest may well have voted for May's deal on the basis that any such disturbances would be even less in the national interest. I understand that as well - although it does come dangerously close to mob rule acquiescence.

The latest YouGov poll shows that Remain's lead over Leave is now an historically high 11 points. That cannot be irrelevant surely. You have often said you have only contempt for those in favour of a further consultation but with the same poll implying that well over 20 million people want one surely most sane people will find it difficult to loathe a majority of the voting public. Perhaps the rioting would be less than some fear. Or hope.
 


WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 10, 2003
25,549
I think you'll allowing a few loud remainers suggesting that Brexit is dead to get to you. As per my post you quoted, some of them don't seem to understand that legislation MUST be passed to stop us leaving on the 29th March - it would appear all of a sudden they don't understand what the process of passing legislation is or indeed how long it takes.

MPs next get a vote on this on the 29th Jan. That leaves 2 sitting days in January after that. There are 12 sitting days in February thanks to the recess ( there are rumours this will be cancelled but as yet this hasn't happened ) and finally 16 sitting days in March. That makes a grand total of 30 sitting days between now and leave day. Also remember parliament is in a muddle at the moment with no clear view. Tories won't shift, Labour are sulking and the other parties don't hold enough numbers to change anything by themselves. Unless someone pulls a rabbit out of a hat then we're leaving on the 29th March.

clutching-at-straws.jpg

Don't forget, patience is a virtue :thumbsup:
 
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cunning fergus

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2009
4,736
I don't see it as black and white as you do. I also don't think scrapping CAP will do much for redistribution of wealth. Clearly, payments for doing nothing with the land, creates some problems, but so did guaranteed prices for production, creating wine lakes and butter mountains etc. If you open up the market to competition from places where animal welfare or environmental practices are lower, you damage the chances of standards here from being maintained and do nothing to encourage better practices elsewhere.
The EU recognises the issues CAP creates in developing countries, and is trying to find ways to improve this in balance with other objectives. You won't want to read this, but it may alter your views a bit if you find the time to. http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2018/603862/EXPO_STU(2018)603862_EN.pdf



I have read that doc before, I am unaware of reform since and frankly as this thread demonstrates in spades, 3rd countries will not benefit from the need for an effective working EU. Turkeys won’t vote for Christmas, and if EU politicians are not going to assist the U.K. post Brexit on what basis do you think EU politicians will meaningfully help other 3rd countries? That is absurd.

The origins of the CAP are reasonable, however as it stands today it is broadly speaking indefensible, I can accept some subsidies but 40% of the EU budget is obscene, if the EU was serious about deploying it on a socialist basis they would create an algorithm to make it means tested. Billionaire landowners will get nothing. They have had plenty of time to do that haven’t they?
 


dingodan

New member
Feb 16, 2011
10,080
Boris says no deal is not an option

Not really.

He said he does not see how parliament can rule out no deal.

But he also said a no-deal Brexit that led to the imposition of tariffs between the EU and the UK is not going to happen.

He probably believes, as many do, that in the event of No Deal, we and the EU would immediately agree to tariff free access under a FTA.

"...taking into account the stated positions of both sides, the most probable option would be an FTA with zero-tariffs for all sectors."

"Overall, a bespoke deal like CETA + seems to be the most likely outcome of the negotiations. Although both sides are probably willing to accept zero or near-zero tariffs, the final outcome depends on other issues too."

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/...s-but-the-eus-political-interest-matters-too/
 


Mtoto

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2003
1,837
I don't think we've been seeing this pendulum swing in our governments. After years of Tory rule, when Labour eventually got in it was with a right biased Labour government, and the Tory governments we've had since then have not exactly been to the right of the Tories.


It's not necessarily an equal swing - voting patterns across the population ensure that a right-of-centre government is the default. Sixty per cent of the country can be sick to death of the Tories and thoroughly hacked off with how their lives are unfolding but so long as the other 40pc - for the most part the better-off 40pc who are more likely to actually turn out and vote - are still willing to tick the steady-as-she-goes Tory box, FPTP will do the rest.

But Thatcher was a significant lurch to the right when the Conservatives returned to power in 1979 - poor old Macmillan spent his declining years railing against her in the Lords, scarcely able to believe what she was up to. And a Tory party intent on exiting the EU (and, as a result, the Thatcher-inspired single market) is another step in the same direction. The anti-European Tories were an oddball fringe 20 years ago. Not any more.

The Corbynistas decry Blair as a pseudo-Tory but the shift from the Thatcher/Major era to New Labour was a much more abrupt change of direction than you would ever expect to see in a parliament elected under PR. He also enjoyed absolute power with a huge majority in Parliament - having received 43pc of the vote. The Lib/Dems - in the middle ground - got 17pc, and a tenth of the number of seats. Corbyn, if he ever gets over the line, will go much further still.

Germany is the obvious comparison, in terms of population, size of economy etc. Sure, it sometimes takes them weeks to form a government after an election, but when they do, it represents a majority of the vote. Policies shift either side of the middle from time-to-time, but not very far from it. Looking at the current situation, which system would you say is more likely to deliver "strong and stable" government?
 

Publius Ovidius

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
45,891
at home
I'm not sure that Norway are in a position to demand payment. If we were discussing with them the option to join the EEA with Norway, and they made it difficult, they'd be made aware that one of our alternatives is to stay in the EU, where we could make things difficult for Norway.

so we piss off all of Europe and now you want to piss off norway too! Blimey
 

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Sep 1, 2017
17,423
Deepest, darkest Sussex
BREAKING

Eton & Oxford educated former Foreign Secretary Alexander Boris de Pfeffeil Johnson accuses others of being "part of the elite".
 
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Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
Piss them off? The suggestion is that they'd hold us to ransom over joining them - that would be them pissing us off.

Norway is quite happy in their treaty with Iceland, and Liechtenstein in EFTA. They are happy with their connection with the EU, although not part of it. Why should they admit the 'troublecausers' into their treaty?
 

fanseagull

New member
Dec 18, 2018
228
BREAKING

Eaton & Oxford educated former Foreign Secretary Alexander Boris de Pfeffeil Johnson accuses others of being "part of the elite".

My God, next he'll be accusing other people of faithlessness in marriage, recklessly serving their own egos and aspirations, slipping into pointless latin phrases.... oh, wait a minute......
 
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