Fiscal Failings from Labour Again

beorhthelm · Apr 23, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
"£1,640,000,000,000: That's the record debt now owed by Britain"

And Hammond wants to borrow even more. Sadly there won't be an EU to bail you out when this goes tits up.

Tories, can't be trusted with the economy.

Hammond want to borrow as little a possible (£16bn this year) while maintaining all those state spending commitments. meanwhile Labour want to increase it by another £100bn a year. neither can be trusted with the economy all the time there isnt an honest debate about cost of welfare, health, pension etc.

Soulman · Apr 23, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
First we took Holland. Next we take France. EU on the rise.

The "we", being Germany I take it.
Obvious what the final result in France will be, so this time your nailed on prediction should be correct, unlike your past attempts.

Your Mum · Apr 23, 2017

wellquickwoody said:
Or sitting in bed with...

your mum

Your Mum · Apr 23, 2017

sparkie said:
I'm IN

...your mum

Soulman · Apr 23, 2017

GingerBeerMan said:
View attachment 84591

Lots of periods in recent history when France had very low youth unemployment - I don't suspect you were congratulating the EU then? You can actually see the youth unemployment peaks in years after a recession (1991/2001/2008) and would suggest it's actually strongly linked to economic performance rather than 'being in the EU' or not.

A little bit of research goes a long way - but then I guess if everyone thought that the 52% would have voted to leave, would they?

You obviously feel that the massive youth unemployment in France, Spain, Portugal, Italy etc, plus the rank economies in these countries and Greece has not happened on this current corrupt, unelected, useless EU watch.
The past has gone, the EU has turned into a monster, driven by Germany.
GlaD I was one of the 52%.

Soulman · Apr 23, 2017

beorhthelm said:
Hammond want to borrow as little a possible (£16bn this year) while maintaining all those state spending commitments. meanwhile Labour want to increase it by another £100bn a year. neither can be trusted with the economy all the time there isnt an honest debate about cost of welfare, health, pension etc.

Yep, an honest debate is best for our country.

Deleted member 22389 · Apr 23, 2017

Soulman said:
You obviously feel that the massive youth unemployment in France, Spain, Portugal, Italy etc, plus the rank economies in these countries and Greece has not happened on this current corrupt, unelected, useless EU watch.
The past has gone, the EU has turned into a monster, driven by Germany.
GlaD I was one of the 52%.

Same here.

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 23, 2017

Soulman said:
The "we", being Germany I take it.
Obvious what the final result in France will be, so this time your nailed on prediction should be correct, unlike your past attempts.

"We" being the EU.

GingerBeerMan · Apr 23, 2017

Soulman said:
You obviously feel that the massive youth unemployment in France, Spain, Portugal, Italy etc, plus the rank economies in these countries and Greece has not happened on this current corrupt, unelected, useless EU watch.
The past has gone, the EU has turned into a monster, driven by Germany.
GlaD I was one of the 52%.

lol, what? Did you even read any of the post you quoted?

The reduction in education spending by the government is an attempt to create more people like you - ones who are easily influenced and manipulated to tow the party line. Actually read facts and information and maybe you wouldn't have been one of the 52% who voted away a prosperous future for our next generation.

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 23, 2017

beorhthelm said:
Hammond want to borrow as little a possible (£16bn this year).

I'm sure he does. Whether he's competent enough to drive an economy to achieve this is another matter.

Tories can't be trusted with the economy, record debts show this.
What will he do when he's run out of spending other people's money?

Off out for breakfast now.

Herr Tubthumper · Apr 23, 2017

GingerBeerMan said:
lol, what? Did you even read any of the post you quoted?

Ha ha. Welcome to the world of [MENTION=26105]Soulman[/MENTION]. You'll get used to this.

Oh, if you want to get rid of him just ask a question. Always does the trick.

Soulman · Apr 23, 2017

GingerBeerMan said:
lol, what? Did you even read any of the post you quoted?

The reduction in education spending by the government is an attempt to create more people like you - ones who are easily influenced and manipulated to tow the party line. Actually read facts and information and maybe you wouldn't have been one of the 52% who voted away a prosperous future for our next generation.

I read the facts, I made my decision, you made yours. You tow the EU party line, I despise it.
I despise the way they have tried to put every country under the EU flag and ideals.
I feel you are easily influenced, you were in the minority as well.

Soulman · Apr 23, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
Ha ha. Welcome to the world of [MENTION=26105]Soulman[/MENTION]. You'll get used to this.

Oh, if you want to get rid of him just ask a question. Always does the trick.

Putting out the same old patter eh, the interfering know all who lives and breathes the Fatherland whilst telling the UK what to do.
It is people like you that make us who actually live HERE very wary of the Germany led EU.

studio150 · Apr 23, 2017

The Clamp said:
Bankers wages, corporation tax, jobs for spouses, cutting tax breaks. That should be a good start.

With a few shouting cut bankers wages perhaps they can explain how this will be done. What is the definition of a banker. Is it everyone who works for a bank including counter staff, cleaners or only bank staff who earn over a stated threshold, a cap on bonuses or what.
Why not focus on public service workers who earn more than the prime minister.

There us a clear issue with Corporation Tax given Brexit and the stated desire to have a rate of Corporation Tax that attracts and retains companies and investment.

Still let's tax the rich more where the rich seems to be defined as anyone who through a combination if academic and professional qualification and hard work are earning more than £20k

Soulman · Apr 23, 2017

GingerBeerMan said:
lol, what? Did you even read any of the post you quoted?

The reduction in education spending by the government is an attempt to create more people like you - ones who are easily influenced and manipulated to tow the party line. Actually read facts and information and maybe you wouldn't have been one of the 52% who voted away a prosperous future for our next generation.

What proof do you have that 52% have "voted away a prosperous future for our next generation".
Any proof will help me understand.

larus · Apr 23, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
I think it is economically incompetent, and myopic, to make these cuts. My preference is to grow the economy thereby increasing tax revenue, and make others pay their fair share of taxes. This tax income from a bigger, buoyant and balanced economy will reduce the deficit. My mind is made up and clear. What element of this are you struggling with?

And that's what is happening (look at the relative UK performance to the rest of the EU or G7). What's been holding he UK back is the failure of the largest market for the UK (the EU) since the financial crash. So, as it's so clear in you mind that the economy needs to grow (which it is doing quite steadily), then you should accept that the plans for deficit reduction and a balanced budget are on course. The problem was the complete clutter f*ck which was inherited from Blair/Brown spending money like there was no tomorrow in the relative boom years before the recession. Gordon "I've abolished Boom and Bust" Brown. Yet the lefties still want to say that at Tories are economically incompetent.

But the way, I'm nat saying things are fair. This is far from the case and he abuse by the elite is criminal, but don't target those who are relatively successful for huge taxes as this is not the problem IMO. THe problem is corporations avoiding tax and an entitlement/benefits culture.

beorhthelm · Apr 23, 2017

GingerBeerMan said:
Government spending is not a black hole - when the government spends money it goes straight into the economy, getting multiplied in the process. Tax breaks for the wealthy is what causes money to disappear. Remember, to reduce debt as a % of GDP we can also increase GDP - something government spending does very well if invested wisely.

this is such a massive contradiction. accepting that government spending is not simply a black hole, not all spending is equal in its effect on GDP and definately some forms are low mulitiplier and there are some that are negative. the contradiction is that tax breaks make money disappear - of course they dont, why would the money leave the economy because it wasnt taxed? it will be spent on consumption or invested, which usually have more positive effect on GDP than government spending (all private spending/investment not equal of course).

larus · Apr 23, 2017

GingerBeerMan said:
You seem to forget there is a difference between spending and investment. An investment now - or in 2010, as argued by people such as Vince Cable - would cause an increase in tax receipts in the future and therefore an ability to reduce the deficit without cutting spending on vital public services. The tories are hell-bent on reducing spending on public services and are justifying it with the line of 'balancing the books' and 'undoing the mess left by labour'. At the same time they're reducing tax rates for the most wealthy in society and corporations; we now have the lowest corporation tax in the G7 by ~10% and it's been falling year-on-year since the conservatives took power.

Government spending is not a black hole - when the government spends money it goes straight into the economy, getting multiplied in the process. Tax breaks for the wealthy is what causes money to disappear. Remember, to reduce debt as a % of GDP we can also increase GDP - something government spending does very well if invested wisely.

In my experience the people who lap up the conservatives rhetoric regarding the economy are less economically literate as they don't have a good understanding of how economics works beyond 'debt bad, cut spending'.

I'd agree. First, my point was in repsonse to Herr T saying about the level of debt caused by the Tories, and I pointed out the starting position they inherited.

Yes, spending on infrastructure is good (so long as it's not the EU type of spending - roads to nowhere, airports with no passengers etc.). Added to this we need to address the view that people are 'entitled' to benefits. I agree with the welfare system, but it should be seen for what it was designed to do. To protect the needy and not those who choose not to work. If someone is able-bodied and wants benefits but can't find work, then thye should be do voluntary work in the community to 'earn' the benefits.

This will improve the local environment and dissuade those who want to do nothing but get money.

Another issue which we can never discuss is efficiency in public services. If we ever question that the unions are up in arms, There's so much to this whole debate but it's too polarised.

Uh_huh_him · Apr 23, 2017

Soulman said:
What proof do you have that 52% have "voted away a prosperous future for our next generation".
Any proof will help me understand.

There will never be any proof.
The current state of the economy is apparently still Labour's fault, even after 7 years of Tory management to put it right or at least improve it.
I daresay that if the economy suffers post-brexit, the media and Tories will still be droning on about "where's the gold?" and "There's no money left" notes and the failings of Gordon Brown's government.

Maybe you will be right and the economy will improve after brexit. i hope so... i just don't see any evidence to suggest it will.

beorhthelm · Apr 23, 2017

Herr Tubthumper said:
I'm sure he does. Whether he's competent enough to drive an economy to achieve this is another matter.

Tories can't be trusted with the economy, record debts show this.
What will he do when he's run out of spending other people's money?

he's far more competent than McDonnell, who wants to remove "tax cuts" to business which are to encourage investment or simply accountancy rules to defer costs. there's a delightful plan to tax foreign companies too, which means we'll get taxes on profits from the likes of Google, Microsoft, VW.

we both agree that the best way forward would be to grow the economy, and certainly Osborne done naff all on that front. the issue is that Labour wouldnt either, promising to spend billions on state sponsored projects based on politics rather than economic, needing further future spending to maintain. both parties promise to spend other peoples money, Labour just promise to spend an awful lot more.

point is this soundbite that "Tories add more to the debt" is politically dishonest, especially from those that want to see spending increase.

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Fiscal Failings from Labour Again

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