Join a Union.

Herr Tubthumper · May 18, 2015

beorhthelm said:
your referring to protocol, not something thats technically challenging and could be done today between ATC and an on board computer.

moving to related but slightly different territory, the tech press last week spoke of the automated Google test cars having accidents. apparently they've had a dozen over a million or so miles, at first reported (by the lay press mostly) as a bit crap. turns out none of them were caused by the automated car, they were all the result of human error. the problem with automation is that is doesn't handle exceptions and the unusual very well. the positive it deals with routine, mundane really, really well. so what you have is a situation where automation is held back because the wetware around it cant be trusted, though we oddly don't have faith in the automation rather than ourselves. in an environment with a lot of external variables, automation is going to have difficulty. keep it in an environment with few variables, it will run very smoothly (cf DLR)

to bring us back to air travel, landing on the Hudson is not something a automated aircraft would "think of". however, in principle, had it a coded routine to deal with a situation with an emergency landing, and say directed to a flat piece of land/river to land on, it would conduct that landing very well - the process changes little. meanwhile, short of having HAL in the cockpit, an automated airplane wouldn't decide to dive into the alps. one day, probably not too far away, when we've accepted automated cars, we'll have all transport automated. the rail could be already if it wasn't for unions.

I've not got a clue what you're going on about.

Herr Tubthumper · May 18, 2015

Moshe Gariani said:
I'm surprised Germany hasn't had a mention yet on this thread.

Their workers are much better organised and the laws protect them much better than in the UK.

It's also worth pointing out workers are much more respected as well. There's a book written by a union guy at VW (I think). The basic premise of the book is how easy his job was as VW looked after their staff very well.

drew · May 18, 2015

surlyseagull said:
Had two sick days in five years and didnt get paid but guys I work with did ,have never been paid for my holidays or bank holidays but guys I work with did ,dont get correct lunch breaks but make sure guys I work with do ,I work far more hours than they do and take my work home with me ,they dont have too ,they have had a cost of living rise each year I have not . Is it because they are in a union and I am not ......or because I am self employed and its my company ,sometimes I b***dy wonder !!!

And do all your employees have the same annual earnings as you, whether that be salary, profit or dividend.

surlyseagull · May 18, 2015

drew said:
And do all your employees have the same annual earnings as you, whether that be salary, profit or dividend.

Of course I earn more than they do or would you expect me to be on the same money and do more work and have the responsibility having worked my butt off to get where I am ,and why the hell shouldnt I and how on earth would I be able to pay them if I didnt .
I am not ashamed and why should I be, or do you think I should wear sack cloth and ashes and feel guilty Drew for having a business and employing people . And for what its worth and not that I should feel justified to explain to you but I regard myself as a responsible employer who likes to look after people .

drew · May 18, 2015

surlyseagull said:
Of course I earn more than they do or would you expect me to be on the same money and do more work and have the responsibility having worked my butt off to get where I am ,and why the hell shouldnt I and how on earth would I be able to pay them if I didnt .
I am not ashamed and why should I be, or do you think I should wear sack cloth and ashes and feel guilty Drew for having a business and employing people . And for what its worth and not that I should feel justified to explain to you but I regard myself as a responsible employer who likes to look after people .

Just making the point that you are not in the same boat as your employees so bleating on about not getting paid holiday or sick pay is a bit disingenuous. I never said you should be ashamed but it was you who was trying to paint a picture that your employees, somehow, were in a better position than you because they got paid holidays and sick pay.

And for what it is worth, unions did not come into being because of responsible employers.

surlyseagull · May 18, 2015

drew said:
Just making the point that you are not in the same boat as your employees so bleating on about not getting paid holiday or sick pay is a bit disingenuous. I never said you should be ashamed but it was you who was trying to paint a picture that your employees, somehow, were in a better position than you because they got paid holidays and sick pay.

And for what it is worth, unions did not come into being because of responsible employers.

I was not bleating on about it ,it was tongue in cheek ffs ,and unless I am mistaken you were the one who decided to put your two peneth in about my and my employees earnings .
with your worldly sarcasm.

And thanks for the lesson on unions but it might surprise you to know that I have a lot of dealings with them myself so hope you dont mind but their opinions and suggestions are a tad more constructive than yours and wasnt suggesting for one min they came about because of responsible employees ...jeez who do you think you are . But thanks for the heads up anyway it is safely stored in the agree to disagree file .

drew · May 18, 2015

surlyseagull said:
I was not bleating on about it ,it was tongue in cheek ffs ,and unless I am mistaken you were the one who decided to put your two peneth in about my and my employees earnings .
with your worldly sarcasm.

And thanks for the lesson on unions but it might surprise you to know that I have a lot of dealings with them myself so hope you dont mind but their opinions and suggestions are a tad more constructive than yours and wasnt suggesting for one min they came about because of responsible employees ...jeez who do you think you are . But thanks for the heads up anyway it is safely stored in the agree to disagree file .

Suggest you take a chill pill before you explode!!!

Well done for being a responsible employer. If everyone was like you then Unions might not be so important to the welfare of a lot employees. Perhaps if you are going to post a tongue in cheek comment you might make it slightly more obvious rather than a rant suggesting your workers are in a better position than you. Also, if you don't want someone to comment then don't post on a forum, stick your head above the parapet and all that. Finally, not quite sure what 'suggestions' you think I implied that either were or were not constructive! Didn't think I made any.

sir albion · May 18, 2015

Wish we could sack people as easily as we used too....Bloody useless workers being protected all the time grrrrr.
Funny how the private sector all have a union and the rest of us don't....well most of us anyway.
They're so privileged and so much more hard working than the rest of us skivvies :annoyed:

surlyseagull · May 18, 2015

drew said:
Suggest you take a chill pill before you explode!!!

Well done for being a responsible employer. If everyone was like you then Unions might not be so important to the welfare of a lot employees. Perhaps if you are going to post a tongue in cheek comment you might make it slightly more obvious rather than a rant suggesting your workers are in a better position than you. Also, if you don't want someone to comment then don't post on a forum, stick your head above the parapet and all that. Finally, not quite sure what 'suggestions' you think I implied that either were or were not constructive! Didn't think I made any.

Thanks for enlightening me and sharing your wisdom old boy ......Oh my days what a tedious sanctimonious know all you are.

beorhthelm · May 18, 2015

Herr Tubthumper said:
I've not got a clue what you're going on about.

automation of planes, trains and automobiles is already here, its just about acceptance.

Westdene Seagull · May 18, 2015

sir albion said:
Wish we could sack people as easily as we used too....Bloody useless workers being protected all the time grrrrr.
Funny how the private sector all have a union and the rest of us don't....well most of us anyway.
They're so privileged and so much more hard working than the rest of us skivvies

Are you sure you meant private sector ?

drew · May 18, 2015

surlyseagull said:
Thanks for enlightening me and sharing your wisdom old boy ......Oh my days what a tedious sanctimonious know all you are.

Sounds like you had a bad day at the office!!

Herr Tubthumper · May 18, 2015

beorhthelm said:
automation of planes, trains and automobiles is already here, its just about acceptance.

Of course it is.

And please keep taking the tablets

BadFish · May 18, 2015

drew said:
Sounds like you had a bad day at the office!!

Should chuck a sickie.

surlyseagull · May 18, 2015

On the contrary ,in fact a very good day ...you .

looney · May 18, 2015

Join a Union.?

so you join a union and pay a political levy to a political party thats policy is to keep the floodgates open for cheap labour?

Damn you gotta be dumb to be a member of a union these days.

Norman Baker suck my lozenge · May 18, 2015

drew · May 18, 2015

surlyseagull said:
On the contrary ,in fact a very good day ...you .

Good thanks.

drew · May 18, 2015

looney said:
Join a Union.?

so you join a union and pay a political levy to a political party thats policy is to keep the floodgates open for cheap labour?

Damn you gotta be dumb to be a member of a union these days.

You don't have to pay the levy, you can opt out and still have the benefits of union membership.

surlyseagull · May 18, 2015

drew said:
Good thanks.

Well that`s been affirmed we are both good .....I do love a happy ending

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