Join a Union.

Thunder Bolt · May 17, 2015

When I was working, I was a trade union member for the majority of my working life.

beorhthelm · May 17, 2015

vegster said:
As was pointed out somewhere the other day, Unions have to have a vote which gives a majority decision of all its members in order to take industrial action yet the Tory government claims to have the right to govern the country with a vote percentage of 36.9 % on a turnout of 66% !.... this is just 25% of the electorate.

this is part incorrect and misleading. union ballots are determined only on a majority of those voting, abstentions not counted. so a union vote to strike can be on single digit support of the memebership, if less than 20% vote. the comparison to national elections is rather disingenuous because there is more than two options and you vote for seats. it should be noted that 2005 Labour won with 35.2% on 61% turnout, returning 355 seats for 1.8m fewer votes than Tories in 2015, and Labour even had 600k fewer votes in 2001 than Tories in the last election. in fact more people voted Tory in 2010 than voted Labour in the 2005, with substantially different results. point being this comparison being made as anti-Tory has benefitted Labour more in the past elections.

it might very well be a good idea to have national elections require a minimum turnout in each seat for the result to stand. likewise, union ballots should be required to get a minimum turnout for the result to stand.

Herr Tubthumper · May 17, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
Nope, I haven't - never worked in a business that has been unionised.

You don't have to be. We all benefit indirectly from unions. Take the transport union, they ensure their drivers' mental and physical health is looked and all H&S in the work environment is in place and adhered to. As a passenger I ride with confidence and comfort because of this. Same with planes.

RexCathedra · May 17, 2015

Herr Tubthumper said:
You don't have to be. We all benefit indirectly from unions. Take the transport union, they ensure their drivers' mental and physical health is looked and all H&S in the work environment is in place and adhered to. As a passenger I ride with confidence and comfort because of this. Same with planes.

Wouldn't you toss all that for lower fares, and the feeling that you own your own little part of the foot that's on the workers' backs?

Westdene Seagull · May 17, 2015

Herr Tubthumper said:
You don't have to be. We all benefit indirectly from unions. Take the transport union, they ensure their drivers' mental and physical health is looked and all H&S in the work environment is in place and adhered to. As a passenger I ride with confidence and comfort because of this. Same with planes.

Both of which can be driven / flown entirely by computers.

Herr Tubthumper · May 17, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
Both of which can be driven / flown entirely by computers.

Have you been drinking tonight?

Pogue Mahone · May 17, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
Both of which can be driven / flown entirely by computers.

As is proved on so many occasions.

:facepalm:

Herr Tubthumper · May 17, 2015

Pogue Mahone said:
And there it is. That is what it is all about. We need to stand together, fight for all our rights, but the unions have been tarred as the enemy within because their actions may make life 'inconvenient' for a day.

Wake up.

This.

Lower West Stander · May 17, 2015

Peteinblack said:
Trade Unions can't win, though, can they?

If they don't achieve anything for their members, they are seen as weak, useless and ineffective - and so not worth joining.
If they do successfully achieve things, they are slagged off for being militant, too powerful or holding the country (or employers) to ransom.

I wonder how many people who moan about unions being weak or useless also cheer every time (Tory) governments launch another crackdown on union 'power'?

Our political masters love 'hard-working people' as long as they don't have the cheek either to ask for a share of the profits their work helps to generate (only bosses seem to be awarded bonuses), or merely to be treated with a bit of respect and dignity at work!

Do you remember the 70s?

Westdene Seagull · May 17, 2015

Herr Tubthumper said:
Have you been drinking tonight?

Pogue Mahone said:
As is proved on so many occasions.

My point being that if trade unions continue to hold the traveling public to ransom then technology is the likely winner in that the businesses can get rid of drivers / pilots.

Pogue Mahone · May 17, 2015

Lower West Stander said:
Do you remember the 70s?

I do, even though it is 40 years ago. :down:

As I say, 40 years. EVERYTHING has changed. Except for the fact that we still need to fight for the rights of ALL of the populace.

Herr Tubthumper · May 17, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
Both of which can be driven / flown entirely by computers.

I reckon you could pop a few vending machines in the cabin and do away with the trolley-dollies as well.

Pogue Mahone · May 17, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
My point being that if trade unions continue to hold the traveling public to ransom then technology is the likely winner in that the businesses can get rid of drivers / pilots.

You'd get on a plane that didn't have a pilot?

skipper734 · May 17, 2015

What the Romans did for Unions.

beorhthelm · May 17, 2015

Pogue Mahone said:
Perhaps it is the fat cats in charge of businesses who should pay your bills? It is not blackmail, it is refusing to be treated in a way that is disrespectful and suggests that the ordinary person should just doff their cap and do as they are told.

in what way is a pay rise of inflation + £500 bonus disrespectful?

Westdene Seagull · May 17, 2015

Pogue Mahone said:
You'd get on a plane that didn't have a pilot?

Of course. The Euro Fighter can't phsyically stay in the air without computers - so the idea that commercial airlines can't use the technology already available ( as in a plane can already be taken off, flown and landed purely by computer ) is utterly wrong. I'd trust a computer that has no emotion over a human any day.

SwedishSonna · May 17, 2015

Saved myself £180 a year by leaving the union. They (CWU) were utterly useless. Would not recommend.

Pogue Mahone · May 17, 2015

beorhthelm said:
in what way is a pay rise of inflation + £500 bonus disrespectful?

I don't know what particular agreement/offer you are talking about - who knows, it may be fair. Marvellous.

The point is that without unions, employers would have no incentive to look after workers' rights. And that is a bad thing.

beorhthelm · May 17, 2015

Pogue Mahone said:
You'd get on a plane that didn't have a pilot?

personally i wouldnt like it. however, its quite possible for a plane to fly between major airports without any pilot intervention, they are there to make the public feel comfortable. trouble is, the pilots dont always work as expected... more fatalities from pilot error than computer error im afraid.

Pogue Mahone · May 17, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
Of course. The Euro Fighter can't phsyically stay in the air without computers - so the idea that commercial airlines can't use the technology already available ( as in a plane can already be taken off, flown and landed purely by computer ) is utterly wrong. I'd trust a computer that has no emotion over a human any day.

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