General Election 2017

Mental Lental · Jun 1, 2017

Buzzer said:
You could always pull up Corbyn's record for voting on anti-terrorism legislation. To his credit, he's consistent. Not a single bill backed since 1983. He's even bragged about it: "I’ve been involved in opposing anti-terror legislation ever since I first went into Parliament in 1983" were the words used. There's a fair few voters who get a bit upset about left-wing MPs who do things like that. Some...not me..might also call that evil.

Your're correct he voted against anti-terrorism legislation at every opportunity. I can see that on his voting history.....

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/votes

That's definitely a black mark on him. Although rather than seeing malevolence, I see possibly a naive pacifist who thinks talking with terrorists over a cup of tea will solve the problems. This is of course nonsense.

However, on almost every other facet of politics I agree with him on.....and I'm not so blinkered over the anti-terrorism thing as to allow that to be the be all and end all over every other issue.

Mental Lental · Jun 1, 2017

Neville's Breakfast said:
Or we can just say that you (and I) disagree with him on most issues.

Oh come on, you have to admit that you'd have to be a bit of a cock to be FOR the Iraq war and FURTHER nuclear proliferation.

Neville's Breakfast · Jun 1, 2017

Mental Lental said:
Oh come on, you have to admit that you'd have to be a bit of a cock to be FOR the Iraq war and FURTHER nuclear proliferation.

I just don't use that sort of language and prefer to engage rather than insult.

Mental Lental · Jun 1, 2017

Neville's Breakfast said:
I just don't use that sort of language and prefer to engage rather than insult.

Fair enough. I've always called a spade a spade.

W.C. · Jun 1, 2017

Bodian said:
If this happens, then how will May's position be tenable? She only called the election to get a bigger majority, and if this backfires - surely she couldn't continue as Prime Minister as she would have lost all her credibility; much like Cameron and the referendum vote??

I'd have thought so. And if it does pan out like that, then this whole process will have just made people feel even more sick of/detached from politics.

Tyrone Biggums · Jun 1, 2017

Mental Lental said:
I've been trying to get my head around what makes Tory voters vote the way they do and I've been having a real tough time doing so. I can totally see why the left gets more animated in vilifying the right than vice versa. You just have to look at some of the Tory MPs voting records to see why.....

Because with the advent of social media regular people are now seeing for the first time how bat shit crazy, violent and intolerant the left really are. They claim to be progressive but act the total opposite.

What alternative do people have voting wise to keep these people getting anywhere near power?

It's happening world wide.

studio150 · Jun 1, 2017

Buzzer said:
You could always pull up Corbyn's record for voting on anti-terrorism legislation. To his credit, he's consistent. Not a single bill backed since 1983. He's even bragged about it: "I’ve been involved in opposing anti-terror legislation ever since I first went into Parliament in 1983" were the words used. There's a fair few voters who get a bit upset about left-wing MPs who do things like that. Some...not me..might also call that evil.

Like the right wing press you have omitted his rationale for not supporting the anti terrorism legislation which is due to Executive powers to over ride the Courts.
The police being able to hold a suspect for up to10 days without charge being but one example.

Mental Lental · Jun 1, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
Because with the advent of social media regular people are now seeing for the first time how bat shit crazy, violent and intolerant the left really are. They claim to be progressive but act the total opposite.

What alternative do people have voting wise to keep these people getting anywhere near power?

It's happening world wide.

It's batshit crazy, violent and intolerant to be opposed to war, discrimination and nuclear proliferation?

Please elucidate.

Tyrone Biggums · Jun 1, 2017

Mental Lental said:
It's batshit crazy, violent and intolerant to be opposed to war, discrimination and nuclear proliferation?

Please elucidate.

You're not up to date if you think that's what's driving the left these days. Safe spaces are more of an issue than nuclear proliferation these days.

They are turning universities into a wasteland of intellect and a breeding ground for feelings.

Buzzer · Jun 1, 2017

studio150 said:
Like the right wing press you have omitted his rationale for not supporting the anti terrorism legislation which is due to Executive powers to over ride the Courts.
The police being able to hold a suspect for up to10 days without charge being but one example.

So what was the reason for opposing the 2006 Terrorism Act then? I haven't heard Corbyn's explanation for it but Diane Abbott claims (and I'll take a stab that he is in broad agreement) that it was because of a worry that the word "glorifying" in connection with terrorism was vague. And what was his reasons for voting against the 2000 Terrorism Act? Once again, we have Diane Abbott's - that the list of proscribed organisations was too broad and included legitimate democratic groups. Tellingly though, Andrew Marr asked her which groups on the list she objected to but she wouldn't say. Both of these were seriously needed pieces of legislation. Anjem Choudhry is locked up and can't incite or recruit because of the 2000 Act.

Given that he voted against so many, you can't take a specific reason for one and apply it across God knows how many anti-terror bills that he's opposed. You have to conclude - because he's said it himself no less - that he opposes anti-terror legislation on principle. Now I know that won't be evidence enough for some people but when someone boasts about having opposed anti-terror legislation generally, I kind of take it that they oppose anti-terror legislation generally rather than hand-wringing about how much court oversight there will be of new legislation.

Genuine request - maybe you can have a look through the names of terrorist organisations on the 2000 list and tell me which ones shouldn't be there. I did have a look after the Abbott/Marr interview and as far as I could tell all the original groups were genuinely terrorists. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/contents

This blind spot that people have with him is astonishing. Honestly, if Alan Johnson was now leading the Labour Party and Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott were still backbenchers then most people wouldn't give him the time of day. You'd all be dismissing him as an extremist loon.

GingerBeerMan · Jun 1, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
You're not up to date if you think that's what's driving the left these days. Safe spaces are more of an issue than nuclear proliferation these days.

They are turning universities into a wasteland of intellect and a breeding ground for feelings.

God forbid people have feelings.

Mental Lental · Jun 1, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
You're not up to date if you think that's what's driving the left these days. Safe spaces are more of an issue than nuclear proliferation these days.

They are turning universities into a wasteland of intellect and a breeding ground for feelings.

Your kind of digressing from the point I was making earlier......Here is a right wing Tory with a history of voting for war, discrimination, more nukes, withdrawing support from the needy, raping the environment and a myriad number of other things that one could expect a decent person to be against.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10371/tim_loughton/east_worthing_and_shoreham/votes

And here is a left wing Labourite who, despite a naive attitude towards how to deal with terrorism, votes against such things as mentioned above........

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/votes

So if I decide to put my cross in the box of the guy who is AGAINST war, discrimination, nuclear proliferation, withdrawing support for the needy, destroying the environment and a number of other negative things......that makes me "batshit crazy", "violent" and "intolerant"?

How can you be "violent" if you are steadfastly against war? How can you be "intolerant" if you vote against discrimination?

I don't really understand your vernacular.

Tyrone Biggums · Jun 1, 2017

GingerBeerMan said:
God forbid people have feelings.

Fine to have feelings, but your feelings shouldn't count when it comes to discussions, debating and being exposed to different views than your own at a university. The left are becoming the new age fascists with their views and actions to remove opposing views from seats of learning.

Buzzer · Jun 1, 2017

Sorry - forgot to mention that as part of the 2000 Act was the formation of an independent Proscribed Organisations Appeal Commission with the power to review and overturn any organisation that the Home Secretary placed on the list. It means therefore that you can't cite that excuse of Corbyn worrying about no recourse to appeal to the courts.

Tyrone Biggums · Jun 1, 2017

Mental Lental said:
How can you be "violent" if you steadfastly are against war? How can you be "intolerant" if you vote against discrimination?

I don't really understand your vernacular.

Not sure if serious?

Tell me what is wrong with this scenario

Apparently holding a sign saying "the right to openly discuss ideas must be defended" makes you a Nazi these days. This is the climate of today.

You do seem out of the loop. You seem to think the left is still some peace loving anti-violence anti-discrimination collective. It's far from that these days among a lot of it's followers.

In answer to your question people obviously view the people you can't fathom as being the lesser of two evils when devoid of other choices. People will stick with what they know over the unpredictability of what they view as radicals.

Mental Lental · Jun 1, 2017

Tyrone Biggums said:
In answer to your question people obviously view the people you can't fathom as being the lesser of two evils when devoid of other choices. People will stick with what they know over the unpredictability of what they view as radicals.

Please explain how voting for war, nuclear proliferation, discrimination, destroying the environment and withdrawing support for those that most need it is the "lesser of two evils" when the other "evil" (as you describe it) is......NOT voting for those things.

Buzzer · Jun 1, 2017

Mental Lental said:
Your're correct he voted against anti-terrorism legislation at every opportunity. I can see that on his voting history..... That's definitely a black mark on him.

"Definitely a black mark"...but no biggie though, eh? I would have thought it pretty damning considering which way the election goes, he's going to be Prime Minister and defence of the Realm is pretty much his number one job above all others.

I'm beginning to feel like Josef K with how bizarre the world I live in now is. Here's a man who has proven with his history of opposing anti-terror measures that on this alone he is simply not fit to govern the UK but here we are with people saying "yes, I know that but he does have other skills". It's madness. Just madness.

Mental Lental · Jun 1, 2017

Buzzer said:
"Definitely a black mark"...but no biggie though, eh? I would have thought it pretty damning considering which way the election goes, he's going to be Prime Minister and defence of the Realm is pretty much his number one job above all others.

I'm beginning to feel like Josef K with how bizarre the world I live in now is. Here's a man who has proven with his history of opposing anti-terror measures that on this alone he is simply not fit to govern the UK but here we are with people saying "yes, I know that but he does have other skills". It's madness. Just madness.

Yes we know. You've been banging this drum for hundreds of pages non-stop. It's obviously not as big an issue as you're making out. If you consider the narrowing of the gap in the polls and the comments of others on this thread saying they are starting to warm to Corbyn.

Tyrone Biggums · Jun 1, 2017

Mental Lental said:
Please explain how voting for war, nuclear proliferation, discrimination, destroying the environment and withdrawing support for those that most need it is the "lesser of two evils" when the other "evil" (as you describe it) is......NOT voting for those things.

That's your view of what the left is. Others have a very different view of what it entails these days.

Buzzer · Jun 1, 2017

Mental Lental said:
Yes we know. You've been banging this drum for hundreds of pages non-stop. It's obviously not as big an issue as you're making out. If you consider the narrowing of the gap in the polls and the comments of others on this thread saying they are starting to warm to Corbyn.

And I'll continue banging it until a Mod asks me not to if that's okay with you. I kind of think it's important. If you don't want me posting then one way is not to engage me in conversation.

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